".......and unfortunately nearly all make money online blogs are crap, so he, Dave, decided to write his own. It's pretty spankin."
Dalai Lama


Best Make Money Online Forum: Zen Duck Pond

Oct 182010
 

There is no doubt that I have learned a lot in the two years that I have now been doing this make money on the Internet stuff. For a start I now know what a blog is, which I didn’t two years ago. That kind of helps, seeing as it is how I make my MOOLAH! Yea baby, the times are exciting, the money is rolling in, rolling out and generally going all over the place. The tax man he does STEAL (insert sad face).

Hubs make thousand of dollars one month, then disappear into LOSERVILLE the next. WordPress blogs have double listings on page 1 then decide to have a very long visit to the land of “Google hates me” for an eternity. This is the game we are in and the perils of making a living from search. But unless we know about pay per click (I really want to learn) and want to risk some of our hard earned then it is SEO all the way, and what a bumper of a ride it is.

We have been talking in the last post I wrote (you guys really need a forum, or are you just missing Grizzly?), um, (do question marks go in or out of the bracket)?, in deffo, about sites jumping in and out of the serps and I have to say I haven’t seen it as volatile as it has been the last month or so. But we have to cope and we have to keep on backlinking as if all was well in Internet land.

And this, yeah I know, get on with it Dave, leads me in no way at all to what this article is actually about. Where should we point our backlinks?

There are a lot of peeps out there still making those little itty bitty sites of 5 pages or so and simply trying to rank for 1 main keyword. I think this is by far the riskiest way to run an online business as it leaves you wide open to ZOMBIE ATTACK and your site dying a very painful death right in front of your eyes.

If you point most links at your home page or even an inner page when the whole site is just for one keyword then you are taking a huge risk. I have seen it a lot lately where sites simply stop ranking for a keyword. The Google dance goes in to full swing and you are history baby. On a number of sites that we and my wobbly bottomed gorgeous girl run we have been having major issues with sites simply losing rankings for terms. I am talking 4 or 5 thousand dollars issues in a month. Not the whole site in all cases, sometimes it is just the one article for the main keywords it was chasing and all associated longtails that goes walkabout to the back of the class.

But it could me the end of a whole site if you only optimize for one or two keywords. No, what is more the case is that if you have a site that is of a good amount of content then you are more likely to just do the dance for one term. Not always but you cut the risk.

Building up big authority sites that rank like a dream should be the goal of all if you want a more stable income. It certainly cuts down on a site simply disappearing for months. A larger site may get a penalty for a post but is less likely to get a sitewide penalty. And now I want to get on to why I never hardly link to my homepage.

They rank anyway.

I always send at least 95% of my links to individual posts that I write. I may or may not have a main keyword for my site, it depends. Usually I do but I don’t really sweat it. I want to rank for everything in my niche so I write about it all. The good, the bad and the hardly ever searched for.

What you find is that simple interlinking on the actual site can rank your homepage for your main term. You link from your posts now and then to the homepage for your main keywords and the power of those posts and their link will eventually rank your sites homepage.

I have now seen this a number of times and it simply cuts down on the number of backlinks you waste to rank for 1 keyword. Spend time ranking all the other terms in your niche. Write posts about all options for the subject and get every one of them to numero uno.

I am now a year on with one site and am working it hard for Chrimbo. Every day I send it links to the content and write the odd new post too. It has had only a handful of links to the homepage and you would actually not believe how well it ranks for all the main terms. I didn’t even try to rank for them to be honest. I have the keywords on the domain, I have a site description with all the main terms and that is it. As the authority of the site has grown I have seen rankings for all those main terms rise and rise. I didn’t even think it was possible to rank for some of them but rank I do.

But the main thing is that I rank for hundreds of terms in the niche. Number one now in a lot of cases. It is stopping us from starving and doing rather nicely thank you. And the beautiful thing is that now I can simply write about a new topic and get very good rankings without any backlinks. This is because basically every single post on the site has had a good number of backlinks.

Last year it was a struggle to get anywhere with the site when trying to rank for good keywords, but it still made money when new. This year it is so much easier. I can now log in to Build My Rank (see the sidebar and take the free trial, it kicks ass) and blast off ten short articles for my keywords and in a few days I am right up there with the big boys (i.e Amazon). This is the power of linking to internal pages, you get such an authority for the site as a whole that your new content then needs less work to rank well.

Forget about going after just one main keyword, build a site that has scope to grow for ever, build a site that you can use tons of keywords for, write about them all and rank them. A five page mini site is going to limit you, build up and dominate a whole niche not a keyword.

Of course, you probably disagree as you are making thousands from mini sites, but that is my point. Maybe you could be making tens of thousands if they were bigger.

A general example of this:

A few months ago the Wife’s ickle Sis came to visit. We showed her Hubpages and how to write for keywords, buying keywords of course.

She has now written 20 Hubs on different topics, just started sending them a few backlinks with Postrunner and she has made a few squids with adsense and sold 17 items on Amazon this month. It is not tons but it is a start. But what if she had just stuck to one or two keywords and tried to rank them? She could have picked the wrong ones and got nowhere. But she has diversified and found a few winners.

It is the same with any niche. You will find that if you pick a niche and then write about all the products in it or all the keywords around the main one then some will do well and others will die a shameful death. If you limit yourself you are much more likely to have a real stinker on your hands. A really stinky stinker. i.e something that STINKS.

This is not to say that you will make a ton of cash just buy doing what I suggest. Some niches suck no matter what you do and you need to simply move on. It can take months of hard work and you can earn a big fat zero. I think I said in the comments on the last post, which you should read by the way, they are very interesting, that actually ranking a site is the easiest part of this game.

I know that sounds odd but it is true. If all you had to do was pick a subject and use some good keywords and send it backlinks to make lots of money then everyone would do it. It is not that simple. The hard part is finding the topic and niche that actually converts. A good niche is tough to find and that is what you really need to remember. Don’t give up there is a niche for everyone, but it is tough to find it. But you are much more likely to find it if you pick something relatively broad and go all out on it.

You will then find your niche within a niche. You will have your stats to see what works and then you can go all out on that, and even get reseller hosting and build smaller sites around what converts. You will find what converts best and then you can work hard on that. And your work will have not gone in vain. As all the backlinking that you did to the stinky posts that never convert have upped the overall authority of the site and you will be ranking your homepage without actually having sent many backlinks to it at all.

And then you will be able to simply write a new article and it will rank well naturally as the site will have a good overall authority.

And that, my friendly reader is what I think and now I am going back to writing about other things that actually pay the bills.

I mean, man, only one donation this week!!!! You lot is like well tight innit.

And now look, it is 2 minutes past five. Now I can’t go and write for my backlinks as the Cava is screaming at me from the fridge.

DAVE, DAVE, IT’S GONE 5, IT’S GONE 5. ARE YOU MENTAL OR WHAT?

DRINK ME DAVE, DRINK ME PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.

OK, ickle bottle, here I come. It’s alright, really it is. I am here to help…………….

POP

  137 Responses to “Should You Point Links To The Homepage Or Inner Pages”

  1. The serps have NOT been volatile for me but all my blogs are 1 to 3 year old AND updated regularly or semi regularly. I think age really matters.

    By the way, I KNOW you are really Griz!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Seth,

    Age is definitely a biggie, but I am getting some crazy dancing on a post on a 2 year old blog. But the newer sites are definitely more volatile.

    Man, if I was Grizz I would know what I was talking about ;)

  2. Well, at least my niche is broad.

    Now all I have to do is… GO ALL OUT ON IT!!!

  3. Re: Wife’s Sis: “She has now written 20 Hubs on different topics, just started sending them a few backlinks with Postrunner and she has made a few squids with adsense and sold 17 items on Amazon this month.”

    Questions: 1) Were the Amazon sales from the Squids or the Hubs? … or both?

    2) Which would be First Choice, to start with, Squidoo or Hubpages, for Amazon sales?

    …with sincere thanks

    Vote -1 Vote +1starter Reply:

    @HZ, Why are you so worried about starting with the one. Why don’t you try with both. It will only help you i think.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @HZ, I think he meant quid. Not squids. Or Squidoo.

    Vote -1 Vote +1HZ Reply:

    @Wishal,

    HA!!! Funnnny. Thanks for clarification.

    Was considering doing some Squidoo lenses
    …. would you recommend I just stick with Hubpages first?

    (am just starting out in IM/Amazon)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Wishal,

    I thank you.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @HZ,

    Ah, um. By squids I meant money, most be a UK slang term. But go for both and see what works best. I favor Hubs over Squidoo personally though.

    Vote -1 Vote +1HZ Reply:

    @Dave,

    Thanks Dave….I must have had Squidoo on the brain when I read it …

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @HZ, I don’t know how noobs can have such success. This don’t make no sense to me.

  4. Great post as usual, thanks Dave. Clears quite a few misconceptions I had. What I took to heart was your advice (hidden in one of the older posts) – pick a competitive niche and go all out. That way, you don’t have to wonder whether that niche will work, you KNOW it will convert because people have done the research for you!

    I started with a few niches that I KNOW will be profitable, and knowing that, I don’t care if I don’t rank within 4, 5, 6 months. I just know that once I get ranked I will do quite well. Plus, this means I will be building up an authority site for each of the market I’ve chosen anyway. I reckon that is one of the most important lessons I took away.

    Thanks again.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Derek,

    Good stuff. Competitive terms take time but are more than worth it, and the work is going to more than pay off long term.

    Once we have a few earners under our belts then going for the big stuff that takes time is definitely the way to go.

  5. Dave, r u doing anything for your sites to suddenly drop? Too many backlinks too fast? Or they just getting hit while sitting idle? My sites use to get regulated to the back of the pack when I kept hitting them hard with spun backlinks from low quality domains too quick.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Max,

    Nothing out of the norm really, it just seems that new sites are getting harder and harder to get ranking for a long time.

    I just keep on plodding away and know they will be back one day soon.

  6. Great article, Dave. I think that is the big point so many miss … oh, wait the biggest point is the buying keywords … I see so many people asking for help on ranking this or that and increasing their income, yet their keywords have no “buy” in them … this is all about selling people something, even if it is only a click on an AdSense link … if you attract non-buyers, how will you sell them anything … more important than all the rest of the keyword research in the world.

    Also the broad versus the narrow is very, very important. You decide to write a narrow little niche for bright while belts for “ample’ ladies. No body buys. What if they were really looking for bright white belts for “plump” ladies? Or even for “fat” ladies … how would I know, and no one else does either. But Google 9and your sales will tell you in a few weeks which term is a winner and which one an also-ran. All the keyword tools in the world won’t help … your customers are the only ones who matter.

    I can’t help but comment on HZ’s quandary. I hope s/he will take it this in the spirit I offer it, I don’t mean to be mean, but you are making it all way, way too hard. Just build links. At the risk of sounding “Nike-ish”, just DO it? Do Squidoo first or HubPages first? In the time it took to read this article and the comments, you could have done one of each.

    Vote -1 Vote +1HZ Reply:

    @Dave Starr,

    Thanks, you are precisely right…..I think us noobs worry too much about wasting time on the wrong actions instead of just doing something. Right on Dave Starr.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @HZ,

    Yep, it is better to just get on with the content and not fret about more than that and links, the rest flows from there. It is not like you will break the t’Internet if you don’t do things exactly “just so”.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Dave Starr,

    Good points, and this is why I always say to go for the broad niche if you can. It takes time but it pays off. Man, with my Christmas site this year I am having a great time. Last October when I started it I struggled to rank for main terms.

    But this year I can write a post and it pops up on page 1 with no work. 10 Build my Rank posts and I have been hitting some top spots.

    And all because I write about anything and everything and then pick and choose what works and nail it. If the site had been real niche specific I could have bought a hundred domains with worse results.

    Good comment to HZ and I am sure it will be taken in the spirit in which it was intended.

    I set my Mum up on Hubpages 2 weeks ago. She now has over 40 Hubs written. Granted she keeps asking me when will she get Google links and can’t seem to get her head around the difference between getting paid for a click or a sale but if a 65 year old can at least do the writing like that in 2 weeks then the rest of use have no excuses. Mind you she has only made a few pennies so far, I think there may be some optimizing in order from yours truly ;)

  7. Here’s something to stir the pot a bit.

    why limit your website to one niche? If you don’t like the direction that niche is heading, you can always rebrand it. It’s easy to get caught up in exact match domain names because they do give you an extra little rumpa-bump, but the way that g learns what your site is about is by the external (and internal) links and what they say. So if you’re cutepuppypictures.com site is crapping out, you can make it “the exclusive site for beer mugs” and just go to linking town. I have a crackpot theory that g has some idea about what your site is about (by the links) and if you write on that topic you get the street cred while if you’re off topic you get squat (at least in the short term). This is why people make coin writing about weight loss, skin cream and loans on places like hubpages because those that came before paved the way.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Reed,

    Good points. I have changed a site a number of times and you can rank well if you change the site name or site description. You can also just have a general site where you write about anything and everything.

    Google definitely just ranks individual posts so you can backlink ten on a site about totally different topics just as well. This is basically what a broad niche site is and what I do every day. A good authority site allows you to basically rank well for anything, within competitive limits of course.

  8. ahh nice to see you have your Mum involved now. Are those 40 different niches she has or are a bunch of them grouped together? i.e. 5 hubs on socks, 5 on belts etc.

  9. Dave – you’re the man – I just got my wife convinced to start writing Hubs. I’ll be sending her to read your wife’s tips on Hubpages…hmm…can you change the picture for me and make it, like – a wookie? Or a nun?

    Oh…scrap it.

    I don’t want her thinking I’m lurking here to oodle your pics. :)

    16 years of marriage, I suppose your “I love HubPages” tramp stamp pic won’t undo that. Will have to just take it in the gut (she kicks swiftly, I have this rare blocking technique I use where I employ my “abs” which I call my “flabs”).

    Holy smokes. I’m way off base here. Let me post a relevant comment.

    “Yes.” (In answer to your title.) Now let me read the post, hold on…

    Um – nevermind – you’ve inspired another post. Will have it up later this week. A couple of points I want to ask, though:

    1) So you’re talking authority site here…do you do all your sites that way?

    2) With HubPages – does your misses use a “template” or find a certain layout works? I’m curious, I’ve just started making Amazon sales there (purely accidental, I’m not really targeting Amazon, just throw it in “just in case”) – but was asked by a reader if there was some template.

    I didn’t feel qualified to answer – I sent him here and to Tracey’s blog.

    BUT it would be nice if you had some indications, or tips.

    Also: does your wife use the modules or direct links or both? I know: it’s starting to sound like, “Shut up, Yank – just build and backlink.”

    Dude. Chill out, Dave. C’mon. Some tips for the noob, huh?

    BTW – whenever you visit my blog, it’s golden. Thanks for stopping by – you rock, Dave.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    OK, some Hub tips, but keep it quiet.

    Text module at the top.
    Image to the right (they are not clickable).
    Text module to the right. Go to the html and insert Amazon code.

    Then put it in quotes and bold it.

    Then do a br in before the text and 2 after it.

    Highlight blue.

    Then a full width text module or maybe a partial with an Amazon module.

    More text, vid, news feed and comments.

    Anything to ensure you get more than the 60% revenue share.

    Just keep it to yourself. I don’t use the link module for Amazon because for some “strange” reason they seem to break and not get reported. Hmmmm.

    I am not saying all my sites are super wide niche authority but I do most of my linking like this, the more inner pages you rank the more decent keywords you find.

    See ya later James, thanks for the kind words.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Carlo Reply:

    @Dave, Hi Dave! Thanks for the great site and post man :) Quick Q: what does the do and where exactly should it be inserted in <a href="blabla" > thx!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Carlo,

    This is tough as the comments section uses code. You want a break i.e the characters at the beginning and end of your ahref above with br in the middle just before any link code and then a double one after. It just spaces the link text out nice. And is more clickety clickable. I see a lot more experienced Hubbers now doing it so it is definitely converting well.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Dave, here’s how you paste code (if spam filter doesn’t intercept it):
    put code here and insert close tag below
    close tag:

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    Crap, didn’t work

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lorecee,

    Ha, annoying isn’t it, not sure how to get around it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Dave, Use character entities? <a href=”likethis”>Hope this works</a>

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Craig, Phew, it worked. Just type “& l t ;” for an open bracket, and “& g t ;” for a close bracket. Without the spaces, obviously.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Craig,

    I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiink I understand. Cheers Dude. Will try it next time I need to do some VERY simple examples. You guys are great helping out with all this stuff.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Carlo Reply:

    @Dave, Thanks ;)

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Carlo,

    Yeah, that works well on HubPages, too – to get a directly link to, say, an e-junkie aff link…they have a specified “target=ejecsingle” or something like that, no way around it unless you do the funkytown character thingy.

    Then it works well. :)

    Character entities, huh? I always called those things annoying, I thought WordPress was hacked…for like a year…don’t tell anyone.

    Thanks, Dave – I keep forgetting to subscribe to comments so I look like a jerk. I’ve written and re-written the post you “inspired” and then realized I had to get on my gigs. My foreman/wife told me to make some money.

    I love my boss.

    Thanks for the tips, Dave. And Carlo – where do you learn the character entities?

    I just copied another Hubber’s code, used a screen grab and wouldn’t ya know? It works, darn it.

    But I don’t know what all the characters are. Hold on…I’ll look it up.

    http://lmgtfy.com

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    That google thing is weird, never seen that before.

    You have me intrigued about your post now, but work must take priority, Wife is right (aren’t they always?)

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Dave,

    Yeah, “Let Me Google That For You” is pretty fun when you’re asked a silly question, you go there and make the link then paste it in.

    I’m sure you saw that already, I didn’t make an actual link for you, but it’s funny when someone does it.

    And – I learned it a week ago! A smart aleck friend of mine, about 10 years my junior, was getting sarcastic with me on Facebook.

    I fell out of my chair, it was funny at the time.

    Anyway. Will need to do the post – I posted another deal in the mean time about losing my top two earning sites on AdSense, but wasn’t too worried about it.

  10. I wonder if we are all speaking the same language when we talk about “niches” and “broad niches”? What do you consider a broad niche? Take the “belts for ample ladies” example from above. What is the broad niche?

    Clothing
    Clothing for Women
    Belts
    Belts for women
    other? (I know there could be a vast #)

    To me if I would look toward belts – where you could have all sorts of combinations, men’s women’s, pink, leather, etc.. broad, yet focused (if that is actually possible.)

    Clothing would seem way to broad of niche, for they way I’m thinking right now.

    curious on your thoughts.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Pete,

    Yep, I would go for the belts niche. Then you can do all the buying keywords for belts for men, women, children etc. Plus all the brand names, plus all the specific models and colors etc.

    You are then pretty much guaranteed to find the keywords that people will actually use and buy, and the stinkers will just give the site more overall authority.

  11. Re. the greedy taxman, have you considered forming a company? I know nothing about Spanish law, but in the UK and US it seems you can pay much less tax if you form your own company than if you stick with the ‘sole trader’ route. Might be worth looking into, anyway…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Craig, In Holland as well. It’s even mandatory by law to turn your biz into a company when you are living off the revenue.

    I turned my MMO adventures into a real business at the start of the year. Already been checked personally by the tax man as well.

    Everything was okay, fortunately.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Craig,

    We looked in to it, but according to the WIfe it was even more of a nightmare, at least for now.

    We have gone through all our CJ and amazon sites, adsense etc and tried to split them more evenly between the two of us. It works out cheaper to pay double social and tax returns etc but I will still be on the dreaded 40 plus % by the end of the year.

    Makes me want to cry.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Dave, One word. Nevada corporation.
    Had a bunch since I was 17 now… Amazing stuff. You form a company around every new patent/technology/business and your empire won’t fall apart if you ever get sued.

    Also, if you’re still a resident of the UK you can negotiate a flat £30K tax from all your earnings that come from outside that country. I hear Ireland is a great place to incorporate as well.

    Had the link to the whole list of benefits in my email somewhere… Will look ‘em up.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Wishal, Good old Google to the rescue. http://nvsos.gov/index.aspx?page=152

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Wishal,

    Thanks. But we are official Spanish residents. I think we will go with being registered self employed for this year then take another look at it. It sure stings though.

    And man, the paperwork. They love everything in triplicate then a photocopy of the photocopy out here.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Stop whining. In Holland we pay 52%.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,
    Yikes!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, You think that’s bad? I just fell from 180 links in yahoo to 100 links in yahoo.

    I was just breaking 100 unique visitors per day and now it seems to have fallen back to 75 again!

    Sometimes I just wanna give this shit up. It takes months to get just one site going and it very well might be a failure.

    Logically thinking about this, it seems impossible to make it.

    But people *have* made it, so I better protect myself from analysis-paralysis.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Another croc sucking day without sales.

    When I send on average 20 uniques to Amazon daily, I want to make a doggone sale every day. I effin’ deserve it after all the energy I put in this.

    It takes damn near 100 uniques to the blog to send that kind of traffic.

    The math of this game has never worked out for me. I have yet to see reality demonstrate to me how it’s even possible to set up fulltime income in this game.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Billy Reply:

    @Blackthorne, hey – don’t despair! It’s often not just about the numbers, but about the quality.

    If a niche, or niches are not converting, move onto something else until you find one that does. (Electronics are usually good). E.g. I sent 21 people to Amazon yesterday – 10 through one link, and it just so happened that 4 items got sold (worried they ordered too many, but we will see)

    Contrary to that, I have a site that routinely sends about 5-6 a day to Amazon, but has not converted more than once over six months (luckily I didnt spend much time on it!) (that one is sports clothing)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    I keep telling you it is a numbers game. I sent 18000 clicks to Amazon for $3000 (18402 to be exact), just keep on looking at niches until you get a goodie.

    On your site make sure you go for all the general buying keywords. My article for 50 of them is here somewhere. Crank them out in between product posts and see what converts, some will. Just blast them out and backlink them. Often you NEED the buying keywords as people searching for some main terms are not interested in buying just window shopping.

    And if that doesn’t work then sell the site or simply move on and try another niche. Do a load of hubs about Christmas pressies and see what converts then build a site around it.

    One thing that has always got me though is that you obviously know how to do programming and all that other stuff I don’t have a clue about. You know peeps like these free little programs you write, i.e the one about the resource box. Why don’t you bundle up stuff like that and sell them? Maybe you would make a killing?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I think I’ll do that.

    My niche is a wide one, so basically I’d keep on putting stuff on there until I find a subniche or even just a handful of posts that will convert, is that right?

    I’m going to make a program that will help me generate dozens of posts from a bunch of collected images, sales copies and affiliate links.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    All you need is one “right” post to make a full time living. Finding it is the thing. I have sites with well over a hundred posts but make many thousands in sales (not Amazon) every month from just a few posts. It is simply chasing the keywords until you find the ones that work, and the niche of course.

    Dude if I was all tech minded like you I would be writing programs, sending them to all the MMO site owners for free trials and setting up my own affiliate program to give them a cut when they stick links all over the web for them.

    There is more than one way to make money on this here Internet and you have skills others don’t, i.e me and most other people who do this game.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Steve Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    Damnit. Yahoo just did the same thing to a bunch of my sites. I hope it’s temporary!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Steve, not to worry, I don’t think Google and Yahoo talk much.

    I’ve been hearing for almost a year now that Yahoo Site Explorer is destined for the dustbin, and with all the wheeling and dealing that Yahoo is doing, I wouldn’t be surprised. I’ll miss it–very useful tool since I’m too freakin’ lazy to keep track of my own links, and it rocks for checking out pre-owned domains when used with SEOquake.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Steve Reply:

    @Lorecee,

    I definitely need to start using SEOQuake more, that’s something that I seriously don’t take enough advantage of. The Yahoo thing kind of makes me sad because exactly like you’ve said, Yahoo and Google don’t talk much at all.

    I find Google to be weird. They don’t like to show you which links they are counting but you can feel their effect for sure. As long as I can see that the individual links are indexed then I know that Google also knows they are there, even if they don’t show them to me.

    I don’t mean to cause interwebz havoc and break the internet but I’ve noticed across many different of my domains, all on different C class IPs, that most of my postrunner and BMR posts have disappeared according to Yahoo. Google still shows them all as being indexed so I’m not worried one bit, but it’s so strange to see domains lose 200-300 links over night like this according to Yahoo. I’ve seen 20-30 links drop off only to come back 2 days later but this is really boggling my mind.

    I really haven’t noticed a change in rankings as most of the sites are deep in the box doing the tango, but the ones that are steadily holding their positions are still doing so. I’m going to keep plugging away as usual and see what happens, but I am curious to know if anybody else has seen this happen to their sites also since we all pretty much are using the same resources for backlinks. The only backlinks that seem to have stuck are hubs/ezines/blogrolls and some extremely high PR links from PR/BMR sites (I’m talking PR4+) which is a definite signal of some kind of penalty due to authority but I’ve never seen it so widespread before. Let’s see what happens though!

    Rather then flip out, I like to think about what could cause something like this. The first thing that comes to my mind is a non-diverse link profile since all of my sites primarily consist of in-text links from PR/BMR with a sprinkling of forum profile links. I know that during the dance it’s normal to see some links drop off, but for such a huge thing to happen to all different sites on different hosting accounts with different companies makes me interested to say the least.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Steve,

    I wouldn’t worry about it at all. You haven’t lost any links. It is just Yahoo not showing them is all, as it is quirky, prob because of the Bing thing.

    If the links are still indexed then all is well. If sites haven’t changed ranking then you definitely haven’t lost the links.

    A bummer from a spying on competitors point of view but that’s it.

    Keep on backlinking and don’t sweat it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, You’re right Dave. Traffic’s looking up right now.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Blackthorne, And on top of that, Yahoo gave me my links back.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Yahoo is causing loads of peeps to freak out a little, they are just having glitches showing your links, nothing to worry about. Unless you lose rankings of course.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Steve,

    I dont think we should worry about it. Yahoo used to show more links than Google, but they still show just a fraction of links.

    Couple of weeks ago I compared Yahoo reported backlinks against backlinks I built to 30 or so hubs. It turned out that Yahoo is reporting from 5% up to 86% of baklinks backlinks, with majority in 20%-30% range. This 86% rate is for backlinks built 6-8 months ago. And I am using a tool for indexing the backlinks that posts my backlinks on ~30 web properties thru ping.fm and hellotxt

    Cheers!

  12. Dave,

    As always your post are indeed helpful and there is lot to learn….

    Thanks once again.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Raj,

    No probs, glad that it helps now and then.

  13. New post on the Griz (formerly) ugly blog.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lorecee,

    That means all my readers will be buggering off then.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Dave, nah, I love this place. It’s like hanging out in somebody’s living room. Griz is too busy on the golf course.

  14. I think both works…if you want traffic to home page build links to home page or build to internal page which you targetted for anything. But building links for 100 post for different long tails is far more beneficial in long run.

    I know lot of domains which don’t have any links or very few links rank on 2nd page for keywords…they are just exact match.

  15. Dave, this may sound like a stupid question, but do you do anything special to create the Amazon links in your HubPages?

    I like to send people to a category rather than a specific product. e.g. “Kindle Store › Kindle Accessories › Reading Lights” rather than linking to a specific light (not a niche I’m in by the way, just picked it at random from Amazon). I’m pretty sure you’ve said you do a similar thing.

    This works fine on my WordPress sites, but when I try it on HubPages the link never works. It either takes me to a 404 page or some random product. Linking to a specific product, however, works just fine.

    I’m not sure exactly what HubPages is doing to break the links, but figured I’d see if you or anyone else has come across this problem and found a fix…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Craig,

    We kept getting it using the links capsule for search results on amazon. Just use a text capsule instead, it seems to be fine then.

    See above for some good layout tips for the links in my reply to James.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Dave, Ahh, okies. When you said that before – the links capsule breaks your Amazon links – I thought you meant the Amazon capsule for some reason. Stoopid. I’ll try it with text now. Thanks!

  16. hey Dave, this site that ranks for main terms without you trying… Do you have the main term for the site in the main title of each page and is it linked to the home page? I ask because google only counts one link from each page so I’m wondering if it is the link in the post or the heading link working it’s magic…

    Internal linking does work. I’ve seen plenty of about.com pages ranking for terms based purely on their internal links.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Max,

    Max, the terms are in the site description so are sitewide. And then I sometimes use them in posts to link to the homepage, but not always.

    It is just lots of links to all the content making the site an authority, then google picks up on any text on the homepage and will rank the site for it.

    But, google only counts one link from a page? Why do you say that?

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Max,

    Google actually counts all the links on a page, what happens is that the link juice is spread amongst them, so one page with 5 outbound links is spreading the PageRank and ‘weight’ to the anchor texts at 20%…

    PageRanks flows out of a page after being dampened to .85 of the total (according to Wikipedia, who knows by now).

    Anyhow, if the page has 10 outbound links, the number isn’t exactly 1/2 of the overall PR of the former example (there are other factors weighing in), but that’s the overall drift.

    The more outbound links on a page, so long as those links are dofollow, then the less impact every one of those links has.

    But it’s not like Google only counts one link on a page. (This according to recent research on my end writing for recent clients on SEO.)

  17. Sorry, I wasn’t clear. If you have, say, an Ezinearticle and use the two links to point to the same homepage or page, Google will only count one of them in terms of ranking. At least, that is the widely held SEO theory that I have done a limited amount of testing with.

    Taking that further with an authority site, if you have a sitewide link at the top of all your pages but then use a link in the posts to point to homepage, which one will Google count? I’m going to test this out on my next authority site to see.

    The reason why I raise this is that one of my authority sites has just jumped onto page one for a competitive term and I haven’t sent any links to the sites using that anchor text. The only thing I have done is used a sitewide link for the title with the term.

  18. Dude – you’re right on then, two links from page a to page b is the same thing, mathematically speaking, as one link – why waste it?

    Sorry to sound like a nerd. It’s the gigs I’ve been doing lately – too much research on my part. Give me a week and I’ll be back to normal.

  19. Just a quick update and question:

    I’ve lost a ton of backlinks. 80% of them in certain cases…just recently. Ranking drop wasn’t too bad – except on my number one most converting review page, of course – have you noticed any of that, Dave?

    I’m being lazy and short on time, didn’t re-read the comments.

  20. Nevermind. Just re-read the opening paragraph. I’m an idiot, apologies!

  21. James, I have noticed the exact same thing, I am cancelling backlink solutions for one thing since it no longer works, and I’m not sure about the viability of UAW anymore either.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Mark Collingwood,

    Mark – re: UAW, I’ve been coming to that conclusion lately, but will be running another few tests before calling it quits.

    I actually noticed all my links came back, sometimes Yahoo! does that time to time, but the rankings loss? Came from me using Magic Submitter on my site for setting up a ring of articles to have secondary or buffer sites to hit with UAW, etc.

    Anyway – my lame mistake was to SEO the articles for the same terms my review page were targeting.

    The articles – with no backlinks – are now outranking my website. (( They occupy now 8 of 10 spots on the front page, which I find funny – BUT for some reason: my website for this set of KW’s is now ranking 7-39, where before every KW on this set was 1-10. Hope that makes sense. ))

    My lesson – which is so newbie – was not to target my own KW’s…that’s a totally lame thing to do! My other mistake was to use Bit.ly as a URL shortener! DON’T.

    Use goo.gl only – just my opinion (and SEOBook’s, and others who tested the uptime of URL shorteners). Google’s is the only one that’s been tested to have 100% uptime, I discovered too late that Bit.ly and TinyURL, etc. don’t have 100% uptime.

    Sometimes visitors and bots get your site, other times they get a 404 error…

    Vote -1 Vote +1kiddlattimer Reply:

    @Mark Collingwood,

    I’ve not had much success with BS lately either, wondering if it’s worth the “risk” since we all know G hates these types of setups.

    Anyone had good / bad results with BS lately?

    I never thought much of UAW to begin with, never seemed to make any difference for me.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @kiddlattimer,

    With BS I find it works well to improve web 2 properties rankings and to boost other backlinks if you send out 100 or so links but it won’t work well for your money site after a couple of runs as then you are just getting links from the same sites again.

    But to be honest a run of 10 Build My Rank posts seems to have more effect than 100 BS articles.

    Vote -1 Vote +1kiddlattimer Reply:

    @Dave,

    Thanks Dave, that seems to be exactly what I’ve been seeing too.

  22. @James, Mark,

    I’m not sure the loss of Yahoo backlink data is that significant. Have a look at the two links below.

    http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/023126.html

    http://searchengineland.com/yahoo-site-explorer-whats-the-status-of-the-link-data-53551

    It’s not clear that Yahoo really know why either, but what is clear is that the links are not lost, they are just no longer showing on the Site Explorer tool.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Ben,
    I had another reader from my blog tell me about your reply – thanks for that. I read the piece at SELand and the Mayans were right.

    Only, when they predicted the end of the world, they meant for YSE.

    Apparently.

    :)

    I’m not sure about WebSEOAnalytics.com but they do have a backlinks analyzer.

    So does SEO Spyglass (it’s free to use, but there is a premium version).

    Also – Market Samurai (though not sure if they integrate with YSE?). The first is a website, the second a tool that’s available at link-assistant.com, part of SEO Powersuite, which I’m an affiliate for, and Market Samurai makes my knees like jelly.

    I love her.

  23. Today, I’ve got much less traffic on many of my websites than I usually do.

    Does this have something to do with Halloween or something?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    I would think so. The Americans are busy and won’t be buying our stuff. But next week the sales should really kick in, pay day and Christmas is approaching.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I meant to reply to this. See my comment below.

  24. Halloween is not all it is. An hour ago I noticed I wasn’t ranking for my keywords anymore.

    Now it’s an hour later and my frontpage is back in the rankings once again.

    But my individual posts are still nowhere to be found for their keywords.

    I sincerely hope this is one of those times where G takes a guy out of the rankings to recalculate the them.

    Considering the fact that I’ve been link building non stop, I ‘should’ come back stronger now.

    I can’t imagine G would have me fall back from almost 100 uniques to less than half that.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    Don’t bet on it Dude. We have taken a real hammering on some sites. We are down like 4 grand on Amazon this month over last month and some sites have simply been gone from the search engines for over a month, with the loss of double listings on page 1 and about a thousand visitors a day.

    Gotta keep on keepin’ on and you return triumphant with higher rankings.

    But often it just happens for a day or two.

    Personally I think someone broke Google last month!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, You’re telling me not to bet on anything and that this is often for a day or two.

    Not sure what to make of that, but the traffic today is abysmal. I’ll be ‘lucky’ to get to 25% of my traffic by the end of the day.

    Another site on the same hosting also lost almost all of its traffic today. I’ve seen it before and the next day everything was alright.

    I’m not sure what to make of this.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    This is happening to a lot of people. Apparently google is having trouble indexing or something like that.

    I think this was carefully calculated by google to try and get people using adwords to get their traffic before christmas.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Josh, Which people then? You, personally?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Josh, You’re right… it is happening to a lot of people.

    Check out this thread (and others) on Google’s support forum for crawling, indexing and ranking:

    http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=55d47e1c6b035fb6&hl=en

    Something shitty is going on.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Josh,

    I think you may be onto something – it’s what I suspect, too – the AdWords push. Also a smoochy wooch with Amazon, etc.: they’re ALL ranking higher it seems.

    But, whatev’ – you rank and learn.

    Publish. Get links, Get ranked. Get slapped. Get movin’. Keep at it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    It does seem like Amazon have had a bump of a couple of spots for just about every item I am interested in for the last few days.

    This game is getting harder every day. I think I start needing to learn from the Wife. My prodigy earned double what I did on Amazon for October. I think I may just retire earlier than I thought if this keeps up. She only went and sold 27 items for over $150 yesterday plus god knows how many other tings.

    I love my Wife ;)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wifey Reply:

    @Dave, Love you too big boy!

    They key is not really understanding half of what you guys are on about and just being really really jammy!

    New shoes heading this way soon.

    ps, think you need to write another post before they all forget about “Dave” and just enjoy the forum forever :)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Wifey,

    But how can I beat your Amazon sales if I take time to write another “Killer Article”? I know your game missus, it just ain’t gonna work you hear.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Billy Reply:

    Yeah…come on Dave, write something awe inspiring for us in the run up to Christmas. A nice article on your xmas boost in traffic would be nice, but guessing this algo change has sort of put a cap on that idea.

    Tip for anyone interested: Get onto Google Insights and stick in your target keywords for your sites, take a look at what peaks in the run up to Christmas and backlink backlink backlink those terms!

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Billy,
    yeah, love Insights! and wonder wheel. and google berry pie.

    (I was serious 2/3 of the way through.)

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Dave,
    Ditto. She needs to write another long post on Hubpages for my wife. Take an ugly picture of a bar graph or something sterile so my wife doesn’t think I come here for your scantily clad pics. (or I’ll just buck up and play the man, Master Ridley.)

  25. Even if you have the same rankings your traffic can be down for a day or two. I have one site for a VERY popular Christmas toy that I started on October 2nd. The site is now averaging nine sales a day, mainly because I have gotten a bit lucky and ranked really high for the products name and that keyword is a GREAT converter. The conversion rate for this site is 40%! Which I obviously am VERY happy with.

    Today my traffic is off about 30% even thought my rankings are the EXACT same as they have been for the last week. Some days people just don’t click onto your site. And some days the conversions are just not as good.

    I have one of my sites that was ranking VERY high, double listings, on the 1st page of Google for a number of well converting keyword phrases…around October 8th or so when I was in the Philippines this site COMPLETELY disappeared for all of those keyword phrases. None of them are in the top 15 pages of Google. This is NOT the Google dance going on….this is the Google slap.

    With the Google dance you might see your rankings for certain keyword phrases jump around and move up and down five, six, and sometimes more pages. Google has slapped this site into no mans land…although the site and all the post are indexed. It is really really frustrating.

    We all have to realize that we are at the mercy of the search engines, and while they can really help us…at a moments notice they can almost wipe you out. To be safe you need many different websites on different hosting accounts and in different niches…and we all need to hope that Google keeps on SORTA liking affiliate marketers. Once they decide that they are going to penalize sites with a lot of affiliate links….many of us are going to be in big trouble.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Todd,

    We have now had something similar happen to 3 sites, all around the same time too. It is really frustrating to say the least.

    The annoying thing is that one of the sites is about 6 months old and has never had a slap before, it just gently began to rise in the rankings. There is nothing to do but wait and see and continue working on the sites.

    They will come back in time. Good advice Todd about getting sites on different hosting, and I would even say to begin to duplicate your best sites on a different domain and hosting account just in case.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Todd, You ranked a site in less than a month? How many links did you build per day?

  26. I made some improvements to my site in order to get it compliant with Google’s webmaster guidelines.

    I’ve submitted a reconsideration request with an elaborate story about what I think happened and the correction that I’ve made to make sure the site is a good user experience.

    (they really like to hear that you are putting an effort into that!)

    I asked nicely and made sure to type a polite request.

    Here’s to hoping I’ll regain my authority and get my related keyword traffic back again.

    The setback has happened to 2 of my sites on the same hosting on the exact same day. The other sites are doing fine as of yet, so this can’t be a Halloween thing.

  27. I have one Amazon site, and its rankings have been all over the place since October 22. Mostly big drops, but a few keywords, mostly long tails, made big gains. Weird to see +92, -82, etc. in Ranktracker on a fully developed, mature site. I still think this is Google’s big wet Christmas smooch to Amazon and other big brands. I have several affiliate sites with no Amazon links that haven’t budged an inch.

    My sample size is too small to draw any firm conclusions, but from now on, all of my Amazon links are getting cloaked inside a 301 redirect and blocked with robots.txt. I already do that on one of my non-Amazon sites but got lazy and didn’t do it with the others. There’s software to make cloaking easier (I like PHP Link Cloaker), or you can run a WordPress plug-in. I write the robots.txt block myself because I hate plug-ins, but there’s a plug-in to do that too.

    If you subscribe to this theory then putting your amazon disclaimer into an image file might be a good idea too.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lorecee, What exactly are you blocking with robots.txt?

  28. The .htaccess file where all the affiliate links are cloaked using 301 redirect.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lorecee, So your affiliate link will be:

    http : // mysite . com / affiliatelink.html

    And this will be redirected to Amazon or something?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Blackthorne, yes, exactly. PHP Link Cloaker does a nice neat job by putting all of the redirects into one folder, which you can name anything you want, and gives you a dashboard for organizing them. I tend to be nondescript with the naming, if you know what I mean. Then the .htaccess file redirects the user to Amazon, while the robots.txt block keeps the Googlebot from doing so–it stops at the generically named folder. No need to make the Amazon links nofollow if you do this.

    I got this idea a year ago from Justin at the former SEO Zombie site. He has since gone 100% legit, which is a shame; he knew a hell of a lot. But it’s a well known gray hat technique anyway.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lorecee, I’d stay away from grey hat stuff too.

    If you’re ever going to do a site reconsideration request, they tell you upfront to be honest about whether you’ve used SEO services to get your site ranking and stuff.

    If they appreciate knowing that, I imagine a site with cloaked links will never even have a chance at passing a reconsideration.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Blackthorne, If I ever get to the point of needing a site reconsideration request, I’m going to switch over to selling real estate :-)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lorecee, Good plan. Everybody knows real estate is a completely fair business.

    ;)

  29. Well on the site that was put up on October 2nd and is doing fairly well (11 sales yesterday) I have very few links to this site. I am a firm believer that doing on page SEO can give you a really big advantage. I am amazed at how many people do NOT have the keyword in the title tags, keywords in the H1, keywords in the description, and keywords in the URL. Just amazes me. If you do that to start out with you have a much better chance of ranking without a lot of backlinks.

    But let’s get real…I GOT LUCKY with this toy. I wanted a site that could maybe get some traffic during Christmas and therefore get Christmas sales AND have people buy other things while they were on Amazon. I had no idea it would convert this way!

    As an example: I had only 23 clicks from this site to Amazon yesterday and still made 11 sales. It is just one of those products that converts insanely well.

    By far most of my traffic is from one single keyword and that is the name of the product. I am currently ranked number five on the first page of Google for that keyword. I am convinced that within a week or two that if I can get this site to number one or two for that keyword phrase I will make 40 to 50 sales a day. I would obviously love that!

    Having to deal with Google is very troubling to me, they can literally ruin you and you might not even know why. With the one site that was doing really well I have NO idea why it got slapped silly. But it is costing me dearly right now. One thing I will do is work on ways to get traffic, good traffic, to my sites without relying on Google. I am tired of Google and the B.S. they play.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Todd, The alternative is Facebook. According to a certain guru named Ryan Deiss, Facebook loves marketers just like Google did back in the old days.

    Facebook also gets more hits than Google at the moment, I believe.

    But I have no idea how to go about Facebook marketing, unfortunately.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Blackthorne,
    Ryan Deiss is a half wit. He himself talks about how SEO is ‘hard’ and he ‘doesn’t know SEO’ very well (believe me or read SEOBook’s take on it – the guy’s a nimrod making money on every trend he can).

    Facebook = not Google. They have tons of people, and people go there to post junk about the silly everyday things we do:

    Kids went trick-or-treatin’.

    Watched my fave show.

    I left a spoon in the microwave, here’s a video of what it looked like…

    Etc. We go there to fart around, not to buy. They don’t close sales like Google does – it’s a different context. Google may be “smaller” in terms of traffic or what not, but Google’s closer to the shopper’s experience.

    You go to G to shop, to find a product, amongst other things. Facebook? It’s like Digg was – social and goofy, find old friends, make new ones.

    Are they profitable? Yes – but not as profitable as Google because they have a different context of user.

    Crumbs. I need to quit reading SEOBook for a while (I’m re-hashing). Shameless.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    But have you seen some of the lifestyles of the Dudes that run Facebook ads? There is some serious money to be made from paid traffic if you have the funds to test some serious campaigns.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I’m in agreement with Dave here. I understand Facebook’s a different beast, but I’m pretty confident it can be capitalized on. Not necessarily if you’ve got big bucks already.

    I appreciate James’ insights, but I think they’re slightly on the pessimistic side.

    I once made money by promoting a free movie downloads site. I did it by bookmark spamming its pages around the web on a weekly basis. And it worked, too!

    The method doesn’t work anymore, but still… those conversions came from bookmark readers.

    Go figure.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Dave,

    I agree that you can make $$ through just about any network, and the two current biggest in the game are FB and Google, for sure.

    But I also think Ryan D. is a seriously slick salesman – rich, but I personally don’t put any stock in him, not after reading a bunch of his quotes on SEO and how hard it is, pleading his own ignorance of it.

    Can you get rich following the guy? I’m sure he has to know something or we wouldn’t know his name, I just have an allergic reaction to salesmen with celebrity status. I don’t trust the guy. Great. This will be immortalized.

    And Blackthorne’s right – I’m being pessimistic (I read his comment about FB after reading SEOBook’s take on the Facebook Vs. Google deal, pretty interesting, at their blog, I’ll leave it at that.).

    If you have money to split test and know what you’re doing with it, I’d hook up with Zac Johnson (is that how you spell it?) or Aaron Wall on PPCblog.com. Both seem more trustworthy anyhow (my opinion being colored not by experimentation, but rather by reading too much lately for my projects at SEOSage.org – take all this with a grain of salt! I’m sure Ryan’s cool peeps, I just do not trust the guy — Perpetual Traffic? From a guy who professes not to know SEO? Hmm… I’ll keep my couple grand or whatever it was he was charging.).

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    I’ve been talking a lot about Ryan Deiss – felt I had to substantiate the claim:

    http://www.seobook.com/ryan-deiss-perpetual-traffic-formula-review

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    One last one and I’m done on Deiss:

    http://saltydroid.info/ryan-deiss-perpetual-traffic-accident/

    Why am I skeptical about FB ads? Not that they don’t work, but that the guru that was pointed to is a scam artiste.

    (I’d tread lightly using his frauducts. Learn FB ads from someone who’s trustworthy, end rant.)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance, You read too much ;)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    I don’t follow any of the Gurus and don’t read many other blogs either. So I have no idea what that Ryan Dude does.

    I think that is the best way really. There is no short cut for organic search, currently it is a little seo knowledge, keywords in post titles, in content, h2 keywords, and backlinks. That is more than enough for me.

    I know it is odd coming from a blogger but everyone would really do well to stick to that and never read anything else on the subject.

    I was talking with the Wife last night about learning about running traffic campaigns but we both agreed that anything above some google ads would do our heads in. I am going to look at it in the new year for content I already know converts but I don’t think I could handle the stress of what the Facebook guys go through in terms of the testing and constant tweaking. Just not my game, but I get the feeling it would put our earnings to shame if we could but stand the stress.

    Hope the Wife’s Hub does well James, my Mum has just started doing them and Man it is hard trying to explain this game. I forget how long it took me to understand what is second nature now. Trying to explain longtails and backlinks is not actually as easy as you think when it is to a total novice. She has made a little bit of money from her quirky style though. The over 60′s may just be coming to get us ;)

  30. As the end of the year approaches, I can’t help but feel sad at the fact that despite a whole year of busting my balls on sites, I haven’t been able to increase my income significantly.

    I think I made more progress in my first year of webmastering and it cost me one hell of a lot less effort back then.

    Isn’t it supposed to be the other way around?

  31. Except for what happened to some of my sites at the beginning of October I have made more progress in the last six months than ever before. This really is a simple business as far as concept, the issue is the execution.

    Find products that people buy online. Go after keyword phrases the people purchase from, get content online that looks half way decent, and then get the rankings. It is that simple…but the execution is a bit harder. That is where the work comes in.

    Since I started following Dave’s advice I have done a lot better….better than I thought I would. I do realize now that if you make a site that is OBVIOUSLY an affiliate site you could get into some trouble with Google. All of my sites that have really suffered in the last month were sites that were TOTALLY obvious Amazon affiliate sites. I think you have to be careful with what you put on the site and how many links each post have. If you are careful with that I think you run LESS chance of having problems….but that is not a guarantee.

    There is no question that you have to find products that sell well, get high rankings for your keyword phrases, and continue to build sites. With what has happened with Google recently there is NO possible way I would ever rely on income from just one or two sites. That is just playing with fire and could destroy your income in less than 48 hours. Yes, that fast.

    There is no questioning this game is getting tough and tougher, there are new products coming out that help you get better rankings, there is a LOT more competition, and you MUST do the work to get the results. You just MUST.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Todd, Well, let’s see… I’ve put 50 posts on my site and wrote 300 x 300 word articles and 200 x 150 word articles to promote it. A few hubpages and infobarrels as well.

    Google’s official statement is that they see no problem with affiliate sites, just so long as they provide useful, unique information. You can find this somewhere on G’s support section but I don’t have the link ready now.

    How can you make a site a not so obvious affiliate site anyway?

    And how do you find out what products people buy online and not offline?

  32. There is a guy on the Warrior Forum that sells a course on making money with Amazon. His name is Jan Roos. I have bought his course and there are some good things in there. One thing that he seems to do well is put up unique content and then he puts just one or two links per post. I think that is part of it.

    There is only so much you can say about pool pumps, or things like, that but if you put up fresh content and don’t make it so obvious then I do not think you will have as much of a problem. It is getting harder and harder though.

    Google can say all they want but they do have a problem with affiliate marketers, especially people that do it the way most of us do it. They simply do not like it. It would be interesting to know if Amazon has anything to say to Google because Amazon gets a HUGE amount of sales from their affiliates. That is how Amazon has become so huge. But if Google is going to go after affiliates that are OBVIOUSLY making sites to JUST sell products on Amazon I think we are all going to have troubles. But we shall see. The sky IS NOT falling…but it is frustrating.

    The course I bought, along with Dave’s writings, are about all a person needs to succeed with Amazon. But you do have to be careful. These sites just cannot be so obviously about just sending people to another site. That is something that Google is getting a LOT tougher on.

    In the future, and that is probably pretty close, a site is going to have to have some unique info. and not make it so over-the- top obvious about affiliate links and sales.

    Vote -1 Vote +1All is well Reply:

    @Todd, Google is also doing same thing. Via adsense we are gng to other websites. Why u think amazon has any problem. Not all the keywords is filled with amazon. Lot of space is there in online world still.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Todd, What you’re saying now sounds only slightly paranoid to me. I don’t mean that as a personal insult at all. But I agree with All Is Well’s point. Even Google has an affiliate network and I just signed up to it. If you can’t beat’em, join’em, you know?

    Anyway… I’ve sent my site reconsideration request (even mentioning honestly and upfront that my site is commercial), and we will see how the site fares in the future.

    You might say that this is an interesting experiment.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Just been approved for Google’s affiliate network, showing them the same site for which I have requested reconsideration.

    Now this here is a good example of why G doesn’t necessarily hate affiliates.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Todd, About putting only 1 or 2 links to a post… I’ve noticed many affiliate sites ranking on page 1 even when Yahoo site explorer shows only a handful of links to the site.

    Do you suppose that’s the big secret? Build 50 posts on your site, then build 100 links to it? That’s a 1:2 ratio.

    That’s a whole ‘nother ratio than the 1:10 ratio that Dave suggests.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    I think he was talking about the number of affiliate links in a post.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Oh. How very disappointing.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dean Reply:

    @Todd, I think that since the last update google is putting amazon,ebay and a few big comparison sites on the first page and squeezing the smaller affiliates down or out of the rankings. It seems to me that the corporations are working together to consolidate profits and cut out the affiliate. This shouldn’t be allowed, Google being a virtual monopoly.

  33. It’s easier to get links to the homepages than your internal pages. So I get posts for my main keyword with the homepage links(forums, directories, etc.) then long tails with deep links.

    Cool Make Money Online Blog, came here from Tracey Edwards. I finally started focusing more on building backlinks then reading blogs then I have to find this masterpiece…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Tyler Davis,

    Welcome to the site. Don’t worry I don’t post very often, but there are lots of cool comments.

  34. Wow, great post and a bunch of great comments as well!

    Here’s Mr. Noobie with another question for you Dave.

    Pages and posts, when to use and not to use?

    I read somewhere that you don’t want your product site, like your belt site example for instance, to look like a blog. They say you want it to look like a regular website ??

    Then somewhere else I read you want your product pages to actually be posts so they can have an RSS feed. Something about feed aggregators reading your content and that the content they read are your blog posts, not the pages. I guess those feed aggregators are supposed to be authority sites and get spidered alot by the search engines.

    What the ****?

    Please help me!!!!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Dave D.,

    Always just write blog posts, much easier for site navigation, i.e recent posts in the sidebar, plus, categories and for plugins like the linkwithin or yarpp. Plus, rss feeds etc.

    Also so many themes display page navigation differently that if you change themes the site could be hard to follow.

    You can just tweak themes to get them to look more like websites, put html code in the templates before the beginning of posts is one way.

  35. Thanks Dave………makes things much simpler!!

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