".......and unfortunately nearly all make money online blogs are crap, so he, Dave, decided to write his own. It's pretty spankin."
Dalai Lama
Jan 102011

Oh no, my life is over, Grizzly says he does not build backlinks anymore. And now Leo keeps telling me I should be social.

But wait a minute, Ben says he still builds links, but he also says I should write Link bait.

Yeah, but Dave says that he still makes backlinks every day and that is what he does for most of his time. And he earns six figures a year, although I do not know what number those six figures begin with.

Yes, but what if making backlinks gets me in trouble with Google?

Well, maybe I should do some of the stuff Dave never really talks about. You know, building up a handful of other sites that all get loads of backlinks and look like real sites with affiliate links and everything, but are really just there to send himself a quality link from the support sites he made. Should I do that, spend months on a site just to give myself a link that I know will never get taken away from me and has some PR?

But that is a lot of work isn’t it?

Yeah, so?

Well, maybe it would be easier if I just went on Twitter and made friends like Leo says?

I do not think he really said that did he?

Well, something like that.

No, Leo is talking about branding a site to get referral traffic and to be the go to name for a product as everyone knows the brand name.

Nah, he just means I can go on Twitter and dick around and make a load of money, I am sure about it.

Well, if you say so.

And on and on and on it goes.

Wakey Wakey.

Look, I believe in backlinking my sites until they rank, it is what I do. But as times change I am also writing more content on my affiliate sites with no aff links in them. I am writing helpful content that will drive traffic and it will lead to bookmarks and emails being sent to friends and people linking to it naturally.

But my motives are money based. I do it to get more general links to my site overall and more traffic. And people will buy my stuff, well, Amazon’s among others.

Grizzly, doesn’t link (WTF), others like to go on FACEBOOK (urgle) I never will.

Bottom line is that we are all just a bunch of Dudes that believe in a way of working. We have found what works for us and we do that. Or we are in the process of doing so. You need to stop feeling like the sky is falling just because someone else makes money online in a different way. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Carry on and adjust with the times as need be.

Before I was in this game all you had to do to rank was stick a shed load of keywords on the page.

Next year it may be that you have to have a blue banana as a favicon, who knows? No one. We shall see what we shall see.

I tell you to build big sites but I still have some small sites that I have not touched in a a year that rank really well. I even have some new ones that are 5 pages long and rank OK. I contradict myself, I forget what I do half the time, and I am certainly no expert or know what is best for YOU.

Don’t believe what anyone says until you have tried it and seen for yourself. Work what suits you personally. If you want to build mini sites, go for it, I am not your Mommy.

If you prefer to only ever buy one domain name and put content about everything under the Sun on it, go for it. It works for Hubpages.

If you want to earn bugger all money then keep reading blogs and taking what is written as the Gospel truth and how you have to work now. It is all nonsense. Everyone works differently. Has their own perspective on things and sees this game differently.


I write keyword rich post titles, add an affiliate link, write 300 words and backlink the buggery out of it.


I also do stuff I don’t talk about much. I build up, slowly but surely, a network of quality support sites that are better than a lot of other peoples sites in their own right.

I adjust my content to suit the search engines as timeΒ  goes by.

I save my money and contemplate world domination. But only in a way that means I don’t actually have to talk to anyone.

I love my Mum and my Wife and my Sister.

I have 3 Dogs and a stinky Cat.

I live in a house constantly in need of a Dog fur time machine.

Just because you do not it does not mean you have to go to the nearest Dog pound or tell your folks that they need to get jiggy with it because Dave has a Sister and he does really well online.

Test, follow your own path, and tell everyone else that you did it your way.

As far as I am concerned I will carry on as I am and move with the times.

To quote the Wife:

“I am happy as it means that at least if the Car breaks I can just go to the Car shop and say can I have another one please”


 Posted by at 4:48 pm

  120 Responses to “Should You Build Backlinks”

  1. Surely it’s dogs that are stinky? Cats are OCD clean freaks! ; )

    I’m finding the whole current shift away from backlinking & the reactions to it amusing to watch. A few big cheese types change direction and the IM hordes go into a tailspin. I can understand brand new people getting confused, but anyone who’s been at this for more than a few months should be able to think & experiment for themselves & plot their own course without worrying about what everyone else is up to.

    As for me – I’m going the natural route with my main site, backlinking some other stuff, aiming for quality everywhere, and keeping an open mind about the future. Because the only thing that’s certain is change, and anyone who can adapt will be fine (though I’ve got to say, if future success ever means having to be on Facebook, I’d rather get a j*b!)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wifey Reply:

    @Cat, When you’re a cat busy trying to kill anything else on the mountain, from vipers down you ain’t got time for OCD cleanliness!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Amen to the Facebook scenario. It is odd how everyone melts down, but it is in part due to the fact that a lot of people (me included) earn money because of the likes of Grizz. But now I know how to earn I am certainly not going to throw it all away as he now works with clients.

    Each to their own, you are right Cat.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:

    yeah, you’ve got to do what works for you. I wouldn’t want to go the client route. I like affiliate marketing & Adsense precisely because there’s no customer service involved. I wouldn’t want those hassles for any amount of money.

    Yesterday’s comment came out a bit snarky, which I didn’t mean (upcoming-dentist-appointment-induced stress!) I can actually understand why people worry about changes. There goes my resolution to say only nice things online in 2011!

    lol @ the cat. Sounds like our three would love it there, though I don’t like the idea of them dragging vipers & other exotic critters into the house. Dead mice are bad enough!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:

    oops sorry, meant to address teh cat comment to Wifey. Only just noticed that Dave didn’t write them both. (It would be great if we could edit comments for a few minutes after writing them Dave!)

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sorry, should have kept quiet. Wifey is making chicken stir fry for lunch.


    And before anyone starts the roles in this house are even. Wife cooks I eat.

    And I do the dishes and brush the floors and do the dusting.

    I is da modern man innit.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Our Cat is a nightmare. He kills anything in site. He even chased a proper wild Catalan Cat up an Olive tree that was twice his size. He then sat in the tree looking smug just daring it to try to get down.

    He then got bored after while and waddled away because of his masterful big balls.

    An, um yeah, affiliate marketing. I am with you Cat, the whole joy if it is not dealing with clients for me.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:

    lol he sounds like quite a character

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Pure EVIL more like!

  2. Wow have I ever been guilty of guru worship. Link, don’t link, link a lot, link slowly, don’t jump off a cliff, oh go ahead! The problem is when you’re still searching for success and someone says they’re successful, well down that road we go.

    I’ve never thought much of Site Build It and my nephew, who knew absolutely nothing about IM, joined and built an affiliate site with them 2 years ago against my sage advice. That site is totally kicking butt with an incredible amount of traffic and monthly income snowballing. He and his wife have written about 200 pages of content. So who knows? Thanks for your thoughts Dave.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    No probs. I know it is hard to find the right path, but testing things for yourself is what it is all about. It is the only way to learn.

    Let’s not get on to the whole SBI thing, I get the feeling nothing good will come of it πŸ˜‰

  3. I’ve been in the middle of this “controversy” with many comments in Griz’s blog and others. Thing is, I have been putting nothing but good content on my blogs now for more than a year and a half and I rank #1 for many keywords. I recognized that I need some real stuff on my sites and I save the crap for BMR.

    No natural links were sent my way though. I really don’t want to be social in any way but I just joined my first forum in one of my niches and will see if I can add any value to the community and ultimately get some traffic that way. THAT MAKES ME SICK JUST TO TYPE THAT!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Take a deep breathe and you will be fine. Seth if you don’t feel comfortable being on forums then don’t do it, gotta go with what feels right.

    I followed your comments on the recent round of posts and they were good, Ben also came out really well on Grizz’s post and you two probably cleared up a lot of things for a lot of readers.

  4. For X’s Sake! Everyone participating in this discussion is “being social”! Dave’s blog and in particular his comments area is a very social conversation. Why is that a dirty word? Griz’s article noted above is a great example of link bait. So are the articles by Leo, Ben, and now Dave. James has written an article in this conversation too. The conversation itself almost proves all points. Being social is important. So are links. They build into one another. You need to be capable of adapting to keep a business afloat. Griz preached backlinks, but obviously had positioned himself as an authority within the MMO niche via social proof. He ranked. He also wrote, so that those who found him via search found something valuable. he responded to emails and comments. He had a following. After his MMOFB site was nuked, he still had something tangible to rely on in this niche. Tracey even found his new lessons site before he was ready. Again, I think people need to read what people are saying and what they are not. They are NOT saying backlinks don’t matter, and they are not saying HOW to be social. Just noting the value of both, and the vulnerability of certain strategies. Well, that is all this lurker newbie has to say about that. I am no authority on anything, and there is no reason to take MY word for it. Again, doesn’t it always come back to taking ownership of your own business, your own results, your own testing? Test EVERY principle, right?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Kerry Reply:

    @Kerry, Umm… Jame’s post is actually a guest post by Tyler. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due (James does weigh in on the issue in the comments)

    Tyler has been guest posting everywhere lately! Rock on Tyler!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Yeah, thanks for the mention – that Tyler Davis cat is a hustler! He hit me up and was pretty darn awesome about it.

    Guest post? Can I see it first…(in minutes he had it for me)…Huh! Nice, let’s put it up…

    I’m mostly siding on the link building side of the coin, but I do think there’s a lot to be said for brand building and positioning yourself in a market where it seems feasible…

    Then again, Paula and Wanda at AffiliateBlogOnline.com were just talking about this whole thing and sound just like Dave.

    With the “I make 6 figures” comment…heck, I’m just glad Dave said it. I’d rather just build links and link to reviews that rank well…and to be honest, if I had done my part of linking, I don’t think I would have lost rankings as I just did…

    Then again: this has happened (me losing rankings on this site) before and they came back in a week – who’s to say? Time will tell. In the meantime, I think Dave’s business model is the one to emulate, for what I’m trying to do.

    Cava…(not leaves, Josh.) πŸ™‚

    What Grizz and Leo are doing sound an awful lot like client work, or a particular model that is simply what they’re about: brand building, or in Grizz’s case, client / local SEO work.

    Splork had a great post on this same idea:


    Write / Link / Rank / Sell / Rant…or whatever. πŸ™‚

    I like reading Grizz and Leo because they give me a bigger picture and some other ideas, but until I prove this game’s broken for myself, I don’t plan on doing much different. Maybe just making sure I don’t quit linking like I should…

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Tyler is on the ball. Getting links from authority sites where a backlink means something, apart from here πŸ˜‰

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Could not have said it better. We all have to find our own way, not just believe some Dude on the Internet who can’t even rank, and doesn’t try to, his own site about making money from search engines.

  5. Well said Dave. Well said. People need to find their own way of doing things. If you spend time implementing every single thing your read online, you’ll spin in circles. These days, links still matter — stop link building and you won’t make shit online.

    My whole take on this thing is that as long as you are building up a quality site from the get go and you promote it in an intelligent way that doesn’t look involve say 10k spammed profile and comment links as the only source of backlinks, it will work out ok. It usually takes longer this route, but the payoff is there, eventually.

    My personal preference these days is to work on some massive sites (sites with thousands of articles) and slowly build high quality links. My goal is to make money with these sites not in a year, but in 2 or 3 years. If things happen sooner, so be it, but I’m working on getting as many “good” links as possible. This is not necessary of course, but I make enough money with my other networks that allow me this “patience” to do things good from the ground up. If you’re looking at 100 bucks in your checking account and you have bills to pay fast, well, you’re going to have to pursue other faster methods. If they bring you short term money (maybe a lot of it), hey at least it’s money that let’s you plot grander, better things later.

    In any case, commit to something specific and stick with it to make money.


    Ben K

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Ben K,

    This is definitely the advantage of having sites that are aged and being able to afford to wait. It does allow a more long term view, something I am now appreciating as we are able to make good money every month and not worry about cash.

    But for a lot of folks then not link building or taking it too slow is going to be the worst thing to do. As you say, if you want cash quicker then you need to link to rank and that is what brings in the cash to allow you to take a more long term approach on real quality sites.

    Thanks for stopping by Ben.

  6. β€œI am happy as it means that at least if the Car breaks I can just go to the Car shop and say can I have another one please”

    Hilarious! Almost as good as the one about the shiny new sandals…. love it ! πŸ™‚

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Wifey is still annoyed shed didn0t get a Tiara for Chrimbo though.

  7. I must say I find it amusing that lots of folk are saying: “Phew!” no more link building – thank god – i never liked doing it anyway – I just like writing good content etc.

    The irony here is that good content does not rank in the vast majority of niches – ever. It just sits there in search engine oblivion.

    If nothing else, this latest intervention from Griz will clear the decks of any number of IMer’s who will sit there for the next 18 months wondering why their “great content” is not attracting the visitors.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:


    Yeah I hope a lot of people start following his advice. We all know that 99% of people are completely incapable of creating a site that will get natural links.

    Personally, I just doubled my linking power and I will probably try and double it again next month. I have no intention of stopping anytime soon.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Scrapebox on more than one PC? I just got my first SB today – took a couple hours for the license to update, but I was wondering your success with public proxies to scrape? Have you?

    Just Facebook me…er…email me, I mean….or Tweet me…crap.

    Did I just say that? πŸ™‚

    Actually, I am wondering if you’ve just scraped proxies and used them to scrape targets – and if that worked at all. I don’t plan on commenting with it, just want the targets for AMR and BMD, and for commenting manually.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:


    I just got a second VPS server.

    I don’t scrape with public proxies. These days all I do is run through my autoapprove lists. At the beginning of the month I decided I wanted to cut back on useless expenses and ditched my proxies all together.

    I will have someone make me several thousand profiles(like I sent you on facebook), then I will backlink all of those with several hundred thousand links. It has been ridiculously effective so far. I never had that much luck just hitting sites with scrapebox directly unless they were really low competition keywords.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Billy Reply:

    @Josh, hey – just been trying out Scrapebox myself so curious about this method.

    Are you creating forum profiles/secondary pages with links back to your money site, than Scrapebox blasting those profiles?

    I did a very small run on a Squidoo lens just to test it out – no way I’m going to do it directly to the money sites!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:


    Yeah that is exactly what I am doing.

    I’ve also created 3 tiered schemes as well, but I don’t think it makes that big a difference. I kind of see it as the comment links are just indexing the profile links.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Me neither.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It’s like the idiot discussions I see on Hubpages. People say they don’t agree with backlinking and that the cream will rise to the top.

    To a certain extent it will, on Hubpages, but only because of the fact that thousands of people have busted their balls sending backlinks to their Hubs to give authority.

    A site that never gets backlinks will never rank, and the great content will never be found. But give ti links then in time the great content will be found and get natural links and thus the cycle begins.

  8. Wow Dave – Tangent time for me…..:)

    Thank goodness you came along and wrote this post, cause the IM world was going to crash and burn (insert sarcasm) ….No more link building…wtf…wait …that can’t be..oh no….

    Like you Dave..I will continue to build links, just like everyone else is doing including Griz, Ben and Leo…They continue to build links, but they might do it in a different way and manner..Will I try and add in some changes for some of my projects? Sure, of course I will evolve and try and improve on how I am doing things.

    Griz is simply outlining some of his new techniques…Follow him, don’t follow his lead, add some of what he’s suggesting or do alittle of everything.

    It’s your choice guys/gals….do what works for you and try out a couple of new approaches for some other sites you have. If it doesn’t work like you want it to, then change it up.

    I read Ben’s post the other day – he is just restating what has been already said. If people just get down to doing the work, instead of reading posts like this (well maybe just a little hey Dave πŸ™‚ and put in the work like you have stated over and over and over again, you will make money. People want the bloody instant gratification today. The idea of waiting for 6 or 12 months for some change is appalling because some guru knob told them they can make 10k in like 60 days or better yet, get 60k of new visitors to your site and email the crap out out of them.

    Can we just take a deep long breath and chill out for a minute.

    I was over at another forum the other day to check it out for about 10 minutes since I only visit it about like 2 times a year and just about vomited with the BS and all.

    Keep it simple as you can, make changes as needed but be willing to invest the time and make a great site.

    I think you, Griz, Ben and Leo have all said similar things. Make a kick ass big authority rocking site that is better than the competition and they will flock to your site over time. Add great content and you have a win – win situation

    End tangent

    Make it a great night – now back to BMR and article writing

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Nothing else to say from me in reply to that Darrell, you summed it up perfectly. Sweeeeeeeeet.

  9. But Grizz said….

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:



  10. *** Important Update on Build My **

    Build my rank now open again. Here’s a comment that I asked John about how much they have grown their original network of 750 websites with 250 different IP addresses

    “Hey Darrell, yeah we’ve grown the network by 40% since we closed in Nov. And now that we have hosting issues under control, we will be scaling quite rapidly.”

  11. By the way, Carrie (Workingtowardshome.com) just sent me an email re: Build My Rank…they have a tiered plan now with 1-5 domains at the $59 a mo rate.

    Upwards from there…not a big problem since I want to focus more anyway – but just curious how many you work on a month, Dave?

    Also – why Carrie got the notice and I didn’t – ?! Whaddup with that, playa?

    I at least want to check out the interface, use the 10 links up and evaluate that way…whatev.


    Re: the post in question – I’m not going to be not linking (can I say that? double negative?) – but definitely going to be building more content to my thinnish sites. And did I read you right, Dave – 300 word posts?

    Are you serious?

    I know it’s not a rule book you’re writing here – but is that typically what you do for your content? That is pretty interesting…I do about 5-10 times that. Not because I’m better but just how I roll…but man…if you can make all that with 300 words, sign me up.

    Re: Facebook – dude, I’ve been hooked on that since it came out! My wife will be upstairs on the laptop going over our kids lessons or what not, and I’ll FB her about dinner…that is…until you told me about Tim Ferris’ 4hr Workweek…

    Then you write crap like this and how do you expect me to get work done?! If I could, I’d send you a cold one. Taddy Porter.

    Thanks for helping keep my sanity, by the way – building links seems like it’s all of a sudden leprosy…just the way Google wants it to seem.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Darrell Reply:


    Not sure what’s that about, but I pay 59/month and have unlimited domains that I can add. Now, maybe that’s because I was in early last summer when they were open. Not sure why the limited amount.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Sam Reply:


    Yeah, they’ve increased the fee very substantially. 1-5 domains for $59/m as opposed to unlimited domains (for new members I presume).

    1-5 domains is bugger all, so I’d be thinking about whether continuing after the free trial…

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You Facebook your Wife when she is in the same house as you????????WTF Dude.

    On BMR I work on Squids, Hubs, etc and we have maybe 20 or so sites of ours in there, not sure really.

    And for a lot of my content yes I write 300 word posts, sometimes a lot less. I do a lot of product sites so I am just telling people to click a link to buy and write some blurb about the item. Not super quality reviews just a bit about a product.

    Then I rank it. And I throw in long content about related topics that are help based and not about products.


    Long content is almost exclusively here.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    I think a lightbulb just went off. The guru said to write lots and lots…

    Thanks. Yes, surprised – I need to try that out.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    James, it is all about testing. No one can justify that you have to write 700 words about white socks. The reality is that you can rank 150 words just as well as 700.

    Write what you feel comfortable with on the page and see how it ranks after backlinks. People searching for certain terms are not interested in reading so why write just for the sake of it?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Carrie Reply:


    Also – why Carrie got the notice and I didn’t – ?! Whaddup with that, playa?

    I’ll give you a hint, from the second sentence of the email I forwarded: “We’re giving previous users first opportunity to subscribe and that’s why you are receiving this email.”

    I thought you had a bad memory but now I’m thinking you don’t actually read my emails. Sigh.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @JamestheJust, Mmm, Taddy Porter. Damn fine taste in beer you’ve got there!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Idaho has some serious love for beer, lots of imports and micro-brew. Washington and Oregon I think help a ton with that – and just had a Taddy Porter the other day.

    Have you tried Arrogant Bastard?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @JamestheJust, I don’t believe I have, but I always give new ales a try when I find them. Hobgoblin is my current favourite, and the adverts are great too (“What’s the matter Lagerboy, afraid you might taste something?”)

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Hobgoblin it is – Arrogant Bastard has more etoh than most, I think 14%? Pretty high hops content, too.

  12. “Bottom line is that we are all just a bunch of Dudes that believe in a way of working. We have found what works for us and we do that. Or we are in the process of doing so. You need to stop feeling like the sky is falling just because someone else makes money online in a different way. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Carry on and adjust with the times as need be.”

    I iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii like it! well said πŸ˜€

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I thank you.

  13. Hi Dave (nice to meet you),

    Would you or have you (or your Wife) used BMR to rank your Hubs?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yes indeedy. You can send ten a day with some very good results to a Hub. I would start of with just a few a day and slowly build it up. But my disclaimer applies πŸ˜‰ Anything goes wrong it is not my fault. But Hubpages just seem to not like automated linking at the mo.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Yeah, I’ve been reading you up on that – re: automated linking. I used 4 buffer sites (articles) for my wife’s hub, pretty competitive term. 1 Article Marketing Robot blast and some blog commenting later…#4 from #531.

  14. Hi there Dave, been reading lots here, very informative! There are a couple of questions I haven’t seen covered ( or maybe missed πŸ™‚ 1. Do you use the U.S. Amazon and Commission Junction or the U.K. option? 2. Some beginners questions: I understand an embedded affiliate code will send a prospective customer to say the U.K. Amazon website but how do U.K. readers get offered relevant U.K. sites or does the search engine see which country the searcher is in and offer sites from that country first? 3. Much is written about links & backlinks how do you do this? Is it by writing your article or post and incorporating your website name within? Looked on Wiki and Google but couldn’t work out if that is correct…
    Also can you recommend any good books to read perhaps that helped you when you started?
    Thanks, a donate is on it’s way, looking forward to more reading more of your thoughts and experiences.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Peter T,

    We use both UK and US.

    You will find that search engines are localized so to some extent UK visitors will be directed to UK sites first, but only to some degree. You can rank better in say the UK if you have a .co.uk domain and get it hosted on a UK server. This is far from perfect though.

    Backlinks are basically any text that is hyperlinked to a website address. For the most part the person who has the most links to their content ranks the highest. And the more relevant the text that is hyperlinked to the specific destination URL the better the rankings will be. But as always it is never as clear cut as that. Age of domain, the difficulty of the keyword and the authority of other sites all comes in to play. Not to mention that you can get penalties for having too many perfect keyword backlinks, in some cases.

    This is the beauty and frustration of the game. No one really knows for sure when you tip things over the edge or when you simply have not gained enough varied links. But basically you want these links coming from content that is from other peoples websites and the higher the authority they have the better the quality of the link that is given.

    Welcome to our nightmare and our joy πŸ˜‰

    Thanks for the donation, much appreciated. They are coming thick and fast this week which is nice. As for books I have never read a book on IM. Look up Grizzly and make money online and that would be a good start. Or go to theaveragegenius and read the ebook (free) he wrote, it is a great beginners guide.

  15. Hey Dave,

    What do you mean by automatic linking to hubpages? I have been using BMR to rank my hubs (thank you very much).

    Are you saying I shouldn’t?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    No, I am saying that they are deleting Hubs if you use automatic profile makers for backlinks, spam commenting or automated backlink systems like Backlink Solutions or mass article directory submissions. But using BMR has not got anyone a Hub banned as far as I know.

  16. “I also do stuff I don’t talk about much. I build up, slowly but surely, a network of quality support sites that are better than a lot of other peoples sites in their own right.”

    Please talk about it more! It’s always the stuff behind the stuff that is the most useful. There’s knowledge and then there’s experience. My best teachers always shared their experience so I had a head start;

    Re linkbuilding… hmmm… I challenge someone to get natural and/or social links for the website http://www.toiletbrushshop.com !!!!!!!!!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Jamie Sandford,

    Easy, just gotta think outside of the box. You could get link bait in a day for a site like that.

    6 ways to get back at your cheating girlfriend

    1. Brush your Dogs teeth with her toothbrush and then rub it on the toiletbrush.
    2. Rub your cheating girlfriends pants on the toiletbrush.

    blah blah. πŸ˜‰

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Jamie Sandford Reply:

    @Dave, You’re scary good!

  17. Whew, I’m relieved πŸ™‚ I’m digging BMR for my hubs and main site.

  18. Hi Dave, I just signed up for BMR through the email that BMR sent me. I initially joined the list through your link here on your site. I hope you got credit for my membership.

    Also can you offer any advice or point it to me if I missed it… what is your strategy for submitting BMR posts. are you posts directly related to your backlinks or do you do a general post for example on shopping smart and then put a specific product link in?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Dee@ Prayer Shawl, Dave’s sleeping right now, so I’ll try to help. I’ve been abusing the crap out of BMR ever since they opened with great results by just keeping my article topic in the same general category as my backlink. There’s no need to fine-tune the SEO since you don’t want to rank the post (in fact, you DON’T want to rank the post) or put Adsense on it.

    Good: article about pets, backlink “sweaters for your schnauzer”
    Bad: article about monster trucks, backlink “sweaters for your schnauzer”

    Sigh, somehow, sweaters for your schnauzer sounds all wrong this evening.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dee @ Prayer Shawl Reply:

    Thank you so much! That was the answer I was looking for. Being able to write in the general topic and link specific allows more room for creativity.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Carrie Reply:


    Try to control yourself.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks. I didn’t need to reply, but missed your comment.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Dee@ Prayer Shawl,

    I hope so too πŸ˜‰

    I always write about the specific thing I am linking to, keeps me in the ZONE? And although it is debatable, content with surrounding text that is relevant may make the links juicier.

  19. Hi Dave

    I was hoping for an answer on whether you would buy backlinks solution or buildmyrank.



    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I replied to you, you left the comment on the Amazon post. Here is what I wrote:

    BS is Quick but BMR definitely gives you very good results. Plus you can use it link to any property at all so I would definitely go for BMR.

    Now say sorry and stand in the corner with the silly hat on πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1lisa Reply:

    Doh! Ok suitably chastised – got the dunce hat on now. Anyway, thanks for that – I’ve signed up.

  20. Hey Dave-
    I have a crap site (.info with13,000 auto generated nearly unreadable posts) that is about a year old. It kicks off an awe inspiring $3.00-$4.00 bucks a month in Adsense.

    It is in the general niche that I would like to target with an authority site. Would it make more sense to start with a fresh domain, or flush all the crap and build out this domain with good content? It has a bit of age, but I just don’t know if Goog would trash it for for being crap for a year….

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Tough one. I was always led to believe that G didn’t like you deleting content off sites. But leodimilo got rid off all content on his site and started again and it seems to show up in the search engines. My advice, start again with the domain you have and see if you can rank posts.

    If it seems a bit fishy then buy another one. If you are in this long term then a few weeks won’t make much difference. And .info’s are fine, never had any problems with them myself.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Peewee Reply:

    Maybe it would be better to leave the crap and just post good content from here on out?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:


    Fact: We don’t allow sites with auto-generated or otherwise unoriginal content to participate in the AdSense program. This is to ensure that our users are benefiting from a unique online experience and that our advertisers are partnering with useful and relevant sites.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    What about all the article directories with duplicate content. i.e Ezine and all the rest of them muckers.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @Dave, I think Ezine and those type places have special agreements. I would assume so anyway.

    But for regular guys (or gals like us), I think it is smart to NOT put Adsense on auto-generated blogs. Just not worth the risk IMO.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Gals? You aren’t a girl are you? Damn this Internet and its sneaky ways.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @Dave, guys (or gals) like us…

    I put the “)” in the wrong place. Why the heck was I trying to be politically correct? Oh yeah, it was because you have your wife doing this too.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Don’t encourage her, she is whooping my ass at the moment for a lot of stuff.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Was Seth calling you a girl?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    He was calling himself one πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I would ditch it. What about when you build up the site and get quality visitors. If they browse around and see a load of nonsense you aren’t going to close whatever deal you were after. Especially if you use the related post plugin or nrelate, which I highly recommend and is free.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust Reply:


    Do you really just write 300 freaking words?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Often less. Try it for yourself James. Write 150 or 200 words on a site that does well and backlink it. You will be surprised. Look, the Internet is full of shopping sites with a line of text about a product, and some rank.

    But don’t go filling up the Web, leave some space for me πŸ˜‰

  21. Right then, I’m on it. The sound you hear in the background is the flushing of 13,000 pieces of literary genius going down the toilet.
    Now, here goes nothing.
    BTW, I got into BMR. I’m jacked.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Good luck with it Dude, let the work commence.

  22. Well… I made one, high quality hub in december, back-linked the crap out of it with articles and made $250 with it that month. And it’s on track for about the same amount this month in spite of the post christmas tightening of the belts. So I throw my hat in with the link manipulation team… but might as well do both. Its amazing how much can be written about this.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    That is some great earnings for a single page Mason. I would put some serious time in to it to rank it for all related keywords too. Could be a $1000 a month page.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Mason Reply:


    Yeah thats what I was estimating. I’ve got my team working on it. Working on a bunch more with similar metrics too (product price, searches, # of positive reviews on amazon etc).



    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Way to go Man. This is exactly what I try to get through to peeps here, you don’t need tons of pages or sites to earn well. You just need to find those that convert well and really work them properly.

  23. Hey Dave,

    Have you built and ranked a site with just BMR only? Or do you always take a diversified approach when you are sending links to any given site to avoid penalties and be safe.

    btw, signed up for BMR through your link, I appreciate the info you provide!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks for the sign up, appreciated. I never rely on one thing only. Mix it up, never know what will happen. John (the owner) may decide to close the service, Postrunner could close any time etc etc. I like to mix it up to be safe.

    Never forget proper guest posting either, I am doing more of it lately to get some real diverse, and authority links.

  24. Bon Journo Dave!

    BMR – Do you submit 150 or 300 word articles? If 300 words, do you target 2 different URLs? If so, don’t you find it difficult to to use 2 unrelated keywords in 1 article and have the text around each of the keywords be related?

    Seems like choosing the 150 route is easier and if submissions are unlimited, and the min is 150, there;s nothing wrong with that right? Or am I missing something?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I usually do 150 words, easier to write by far. I do 300 word ones on Postrunner.

    But targeting 2 keywords is easy. Just choose your title and go from there. i.e some great clothing ideas this year. Then write 150 words on cool white socks and then 150 words on colorful scarves.


    Also that makes it feel like you are writing 2 150 word articles instead of 1 300 worder. But there is nothing wrong with just doing 150 words, I have 4000 of them live and hundreds in the pending queue and they rank my babies rather sweetly.

    Aah, what would you guys do without me eh? πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Steve Reply:


    4,000 live articles? No wonder why BMR is limiting basic memberships down to 1-5 sites – all of their admins are too busy reviewing your content and approving it πŸ˜‰

    Btw, how do you feel about ReviewAzon, Dave? I seem to recall somewhere you said that you had problems with it as sites dropped out of the index. I think the only reason I would want to use it is to drop reviews in-post, but after Amazon came out and said this is a no-no I’m sure that G-man will be more then happy to comply and drop sites out of the SERPs that do this if they can detect it, if anything I’m sure G just doesn’t like these types of sites that just spit out product information anyway. I’m going to test this out eventually, but I’d love to hear what you have to say about it before I go off wasting my time making sites like this. At the end of the day, is it just best to stick with the good ‘ol fashioned product image, text link under it and then an in-post text link? My philosophy is that you’re just creating an omgobvious “super” doorway page with this plug-in that can get you in a whole lot of trouble.

    My Amazon account overall seems to be converting at about 10% but I can tell you these numbers are inflamed from people buying multiple items per session. Most of my sites convert at 3-5% but those god damn “passion” niches are incredible. I almost feel like I have to stop people from buying, lol.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Chris Reply:


    Hey, I’ve been looking at the articles and comments here for a while and haven’t had much to chime in on, but I’d really suggest you take a look at the new ReviewAzon 2.0. I had bought the original and used it a bit on a larger site that ranked the product posts fairly easily and got a few sales but I quit using it for other methods.

    But with the 2.0 you can insert images incredibly easy, which cuts down on a lot of the time to create a post like Dave here does and also can do lots of other cool things with the images and reviews from Amazon to create your own review post that looks really professional. All in all, I think it’s quite slick and a good time saver, especially if you’re putting up lots of articles.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    See my reply. I just can’t bear risking sites anymore by using plugins. I know some people have done really well with it but I am keeping things simple and just staying with what I know works.

    But that is just me, I know a lot of people swear by Reviewazon.

    And thanks for commenting Chris, it is always great to get everyones opinion, mine ain’t nothin special.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Some peeps have done great with Reviewazon. Not me. I put it on 2 sites. They both disappeared from the rankings. I took it off, did a re-inclusion request and one came back. A year later the other one is still in oblivion. Shame as it made sales every day too.

    Way I see it is that it is a plugin and can be detected by search engines. As more and more crap gets spouted using it the higher the risk of a sites getting the boot becomes. I stay away from any automated content makers for my sites, I don’t see the point in risking losing all your earnings. It only tales 2 mins to add images and links anyway.

    Great conversion rate dude, very nice indeed.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Dave, 4000 live BMR articles?! I nearly feel off my chair when I read that. That’s a lot of writing! I’m impressed Dave.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    There is me and the Wife though. And 2 family members write 10 a day and we have a great new girl from the Philippines who is going to begin writing 30 a day too.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wifey Reply:

    @Dave, I’ve only been gone a few days and you have another girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! πŸ™

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    That’s what you get for leaving me up the mountain on my own while you are off buying shoes πŸ˜‰

  25. I know you’ve probably answered this question many times but here goes. Do you link back to your homepage or rather a review page. Possibly one article to the homepage and one to the review? Thanks in advance,


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Personally I seldom link to the home page. I rank all of my inner content. I never aim for just one keyword on a site, I go for countless terms on the inner pages.

    You will find that in time the homepage keywords simply rank themselves as the authority of the site goes up. It also stops you putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

  26. I know what I am about to say goes against conventional wisdom but backlinks are NOT the cats meow when it comes to ranking. Google just cannot be that stupid….seriously think about it.

    During the Christmas season I decided to really start taking a close look at sites that were ranking well and one thing became obvious….many many many sites that had very few backlinks were ranking well….really well. And these sites were not the big boys at all. These were small sites, many of them less than 10 pages….and with very few backlinks.

    I have no doubt that in some cases backlinks make a difference….but it is hard to believe that ranking a site high comes down to backlinks…it can’t and I saw many many many examples of this. But I want to give you an example of a site of mine.

    This site is very well made and as far as backlinks goes it has FAR more backlinks (good backlinks) than sites that were killing me in the rankings. I started to study these sites and realized that it was how they were put together that seemed to make the difference.

    Tittle Tags, URL’s, meta description, H1, H2 and ESPECIALLY INTERNAL LINKING. In fact internal linking seems to be a HUGE one. When done right….and I am not an expert on that yet but I am getting closer….it makes an incredible difference.

    I got tired of being outranked by sites that were simply AWFUL with very few backlinks. So I made some changes as an experiment to one of my sites.

    I internally linked it differently and here are the results.

    I am going after a very competitive and well searched keyword phrase. The competing pages for this keyword phrase are 90,600,000 competing pages. The second keyword phrase I was going after has 86,000,000 competing pages. The adwords cost for these are HIGH. And as mentioned there are a LOT of searches for these keyword phrases.

    In less than one month I have achieved FIRST and SECOND place on the first page of Google for these keyword phrases with ONLY SEVEN LINKS to the entire domain. The page that ranks one and two for those keyword phrases has THREE links.

    Now this is an extreme example I know, and it is not going to always work out this way, but I have seen so many results now with high ranking sites and very few backlinks compared to other sites.

    I know the IPK method is a bit controversial but there is something to be said for what they are trying to teach. In one of my niches FIVE of the top 10 sites are OBVIOUS IPK sites. Now anyone that knows about IPK knows they have very set rules as far as how the pages are set up and internally linked. I am not saying everything they do is right…but my goodness…over the last month of studying hundreds and hundreds of sites I have seen so many top ranked IPK sites it is amazing.

    And my own experience with doing about 80% of what they teach shows the same thing. The product and model number thing might be wearing out but the rest of what they teach, as far as internal linking and how to set up the pages, seems to work really well.

    On IPK sites that were not ranking as well most of them were NOT done the IPK way…the people building them thought they were doing it right, but when you go over the checklist of what IPK teaches these sites did not have what was needed.

    Now back to the backlink thing….I think if you have a site that is not put together well as far as structure then backlinks can really help you. But if you have a site put together well then you do not need nearly as many backlinks as people think. Just think, not having to spend hours a day backlinking to get great results…just spend your time initially doing it the right way….or at least the way Google seems to want it right now.

    There has been a HUGE industry spring up with the backlink deal, and it does help, but there should be much more focus put on building the right structure from the get go…that makes your life much easier.

    And no stupid sandboxes for building links too fast or building the wrong kind of links.

    As a side note….I have another site that reached page one of Google that has over 23,000,000 competing pages and gets a lot of search volume for my keyword phrase. This was a test site built four months ago…it has three backliinks. THREE!. I just went in about three weeks ago and changed the structure a bit. By the way, the backlinks were from FACEBOOK, Digg, and one Ezine article.

    I use Facebook to get my sites indexed within 24 hours, usually 12. It would be interesting to hear from others that are not completely buying into the backlink deal.

    When you study many keyword phrases with a product like Market Samurai, or you just do the research yourself (takes much much longer by yourself) you will see that having the most backlinks is RARELY what the topped ranked sites have.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:

    So you are following the IPK model or have you invented your own internal linking structure?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    C’mon then Dude. Don’t leave us all in suspense.

    What is the internal linking strategy?

    One thing I would say Todd, you are talking about exact match domains aren’t you? Or as near to it as you can get. That still makes a huge difference, I don’t doubt it. But long term it gets too messy.

    You simply end up having too many domains. I get the feeling that counts for a lot of the IPK method although I am guessing, I know nothing about it.

    Put everyone out of their misery then, give us the guide to unlimited Internet riches πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tara Reply:


    I think a lot has to do with the quality of the backlinks that you get so sometimes, if your backlinks are from quality sites you won’t need as many. Those 7 backlinks that got you the 1st and 2nd place in Google page 1, where they BMR or Postrunner backlinks or guest posting, etc and other

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I have been looking in to the IPK system. And I don’t doubt you could have great results. But it is less to do with links and more to do with exact match domains for Amazon products. For me that would be a nightmare to keep up with. And if EMD’s don’t hold much weight in the future then it is goodbye little sniper sites hello poverty.

    But if you can face buying a load of domains and putting up a few pages of content then you can make some quick cash, I don’t doubt it. Just depends how you want to play the game. But there is money to be had either way.

  27. Todd,

    I’m with Dave. Waiting for the magic method of internal linking.

  28. I’ve got IPK. I does rely a lot of EMD’s and each site focuses on one product that you build a few different pages for and interlink them using the anchor that you want. You can link a few of these together and forward them all to one big mother site.

    It’s very much the mini site model that is being slammed by google. Most of the sites I lost this year followed the IPK method pretty closely.

    Not saying it doesn’t work – it does – for a short while. But the sites don’t last long anymore.

    Better to build up bigger sites, have good unique content, interlink pages where it makes sense to, & build backlinks to your important pages. Boring I know, but much safer.

  29. Hey Dave,

    Have you offered up your email address before? Just wondering if I can contact you personally with a problem I am having with BMR and PostRunner? I could use an expert opinion before I go off making a “newbie” decision to a rather complicated matter.

    Much appreciated.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It is my name at this website. You should get it from that. I will see if I can help you out.

  30. Hey Dave,

    A slight departure from this thread.

    Have you ever been tempted by your affiliate stats to
    actually get started on an ecommerce site because you found
    yourself interested in the product and knew you could sell and profit from it?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Not unless affiliate sites are no longer allowed in search engines. Going back about 7 years I was making a full time average wage selling DVD’s on ebay that I imported from America and Hong Kong. Urgle.

    Packing, dealing with customers, post office trips every day. Paying for stock, keeping inventory.

    Not if I can help it thank you very much. But if it was that or working for “The Man”, I would be there in a heartbeat.

    Why, you thinking if doing it?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:


    I had a couple of ebay stores at around that time too. It was my first venture into self-employment & making money online. They did ok, but what a hassle! I didn’t really have nasty customers luckily, but even dealing with the nice ones stressed me out lol
    Adsense/affiliate marketing is a dream in comparison. I see a lot of people at TKA talking about product development or e-commerce as being some kind of ultimate goal to work towards, but I’m happy to stick with being a ‘middle-person’ – it’s more appealing to my anti-social personality πŸ˜€

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Same here, no hassles is what I want.

    Only way is if affiliate marketing gets banned by search engines (anything can happen). Even then I think I would prefer to lose money and direct people to un-indexed landing pages to direct them to the affiliate offer. This game suits me perfectly, I am as anti-social as you Cat πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dupatta Reply:



    been in jewelry for 20 years, retail, wholesale etc. have lots of vendor contacts,
    know how narrow a niche to start with, have the capital to invest in it for
    the long term, have worked with yahoo store software, know accounting etc.

    But Oh boy is it a lot of work.

    Ecommerce has long gone from those initial grungy yahoo store templates
    in early 2000s. Especially for fashion jewelry or even fine jewelry. Product videos,
    multiple high quality images, and a whole host of other customer tracking doodads have become the norm.

    And then of course as you mentioned customer service, shipping,accounting,inventory,
    competition, sourcing from overseas, design and outsourced manufacturing of home conceived products to maintain your edge and so on.

    I still have great enthusiasm for the industry and like the whole process of getting customer feedback and modifying service and product based on that. With affiliate marketing i have this vague fear that my competency in this industry will slip because of being indirectly involved and my jewelry affiliate sites ten years down the road will cease to be the best and most enduring business model for my industry.

    I also fear that If i go into it whole hog I may never have the time to really test the edges of affiliate marketing both in the jewelry and other verticals and may never taste the pleasure of being able to take a month or two off without worrying about the biz.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It is actually a hard call to make. Being the source of the product, shipping etc on one hand seems a more sustainable business model, affiliate marketing could take a slap, no doubt about it.

    But yeah, the joy of not having to worry about inventory and being able to take time off as and when is definitely a great way to live. It is a tough call to make if you know the e-commerce side of it, I guess it all comes down to what suits us personally and what we think is the most viable for the future.

  31. Hi Dave,
    Do you use the Affordable Reseller Hosting templates for your site creation? If not what do you use please and where available? Also could you show us a couple of examples that in your opinion are well laid out sites and why.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Peter T,

    I only use wordpress and nothing else. I should learn how to do static sites but I haven’t a clue to be honest.

    A good site?

    Best site I have ever come across. And I have one of their bags, it KICKS ASS.

    I could only aspire to make a site like this. It is about their own product. They have a cult following, the site is personal and friendly. Makes you feel part of a club and more.

    “Buy the best, cry once”


  32. Yep, see what you mean – nice style and layout…thanks

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