".......and unfortunately nearly all make money online blogs are crap, so he, Dave, decided to write his own. It's pretty spankin."
Dalai Lama
Sep 222010
 


Cool. Free content for me. This is a guest post, the first, by a good buddy who I know for a fact is making serious headway with his sites and is on track to kick my ass in a year or so when it comes to earnings. I mean, bugger, I taught the Wife all she knows and she is making so much money this month I am feeling a bit weirded out by it all. I told here I reckon she will make $60,000 or so in a month close to Christmas and I seriously think she will!!!

Anyway, before I ramble on too much here is the first guest post. Read it and believe it. This ain’t rocket science guys and gals. Just work is all.

Um, did I sound American then? I’m British don’t you know.

This deal’s getting worse better all the time

Before I start bigging Dave up too much I just want to give myself a reciprocal high five for being the first guest poster on Dave’s Making Money on the Internet blog. The topic of this post is going to be part time internet marketing. This is something I know quite well because I myself am a part time internet marketer. Still working a 9-5 job means that if I tried to do full time IM work as well, then I would simply have very little time to actually enjoy life, well that’s what I tell myself anyway, obviously there is a bit of an excuse there too. Don’t get me wrong, my job has its good points and I love checking my Amazon Affiliates account to see how much I earn each day but I would much rather not have a job and not have to write articles every day either. I think that has been my problem for so long in this game. I’ve been dreaming of IM success without actually taking the action required to get there.

Trying to Make Money Online

I have been fiddling about with websites for years but it was not until the end of 2008 that I realized there were people who were making real money from websites. Then in the spring of 2009 I discovered Griz’s Make Money Online blog which I imagine almost everyone who follows Dave’s site has looked at themselves at some point. This got me into the Adsense school of thought and creating sniper sites. I was making sites based around totally different niches trying to find ones that would convert – I’ve got a few, as well as some stinkers. I think it was September or October of 2009 that I made my first monthly Adsense payout and have been getting a little over $100 or so each month since then. I think I was just being too part time about the whole thing to really make my earnings jump and the fact that my niches were so diverse was not helping either. Still, it was nice to be getting a little bit of money for my efforts. But I had a nagging feeling that there were things I did not know that were holding me back. I’m sure that’s still the case!

There was a forum that I used to visit quite regularly too on Ben’s Making Money Online with SEO site. That’s where I met Dave. I know there are many members from there who are also followers of Dave’s blog. I’m sure many of you are like me. Dave gave me plenty of advice and we did some nice link exchanges so why would I not want to read his thoughts about MMO? Well, I suppose I should be writing articles instead. But I already told you, I’m a part time internet marketer. I’m allowed to read MMO blogs! That said, this is the only one, apart from Leo Dimilo’s newsletters, that I read now a days. I have the occasional peek at Tracey’s Making Money Online Blog too.

Learn From Your Mistakes

One of the reasons I try to avoid information overload is because I spent a couple of months going down a rabbit hole earlier this year. Before anyone thinks I am blaming Ben for this, I hold my hands up and am sure that I wasn’t following his instructions correctly. But do you remember the blog farm post over on Making Money Online with SEO? From what I read on Griz’s site too I was under the impression that you cannot be successful at making money online unless you have a blog farm. I thought that this was the thing I had to do so I set to work using Blog Content Wizard and setting up loads of accounts on free blog hosting platforms and was trying to set up my own blog farm. Now, I don’t think I really knew what I was doing. And I certainly didn’t work hard enough at it. But I ended up just giving up because accounts were getting deleted and the time I spend trying to get backlinks using Free Traffic System just seemed like a waste of time. Hardly any backlinks were showing up in Yahoo Site Explorer. I was close to just giving up the whole dream of making money online. I took a few weeks off while I thought about what I was trying to achieve.

How to Make Money Online

Then, through talking to Dave I began to think – “This guy is coining it in and he doesn’t talk like he’s got a dirty little blog farm. Maybe there is another way.” And as we all know through reading his posts, Dave’s way is simplicity itself. Build websites then get backlinks, lots of them. It was coming to the realization that I was totally over complicating things when it really is not that difficult at all. Another of my problems which I know some of you have as well is that I would be constantly chasing a new niche rather than focusing on my existing sites. Perhaps Dave will be kind enough to add an editor’s comment here because I do not remember on what page he said words to this effect EDIT: neither do I;)- look at your sites that are making you some money and just start to go backlink crazy on them. Rather than starting a new site every few weeks and then not even developing the site properly, never mind giving them enough backlinks, all I am doing now is focusing on sending backlinks to a couple of sites that I know are money makers. Well, I tell a lie…I just bought a new domain for my own MMO blog, Docking Bay 94, as well as purchased a new domain that will become a case study for that site. But that’s not going to start until the new year. Until then I am going to try and keep my focus, which I have kind of lost a bit over the last couple of weeks and continue to backlink my money makers.

Dave and the lady with the “wobbly botty” (his words, not mine!) seem to have a great system of working on sites in similar niches, writing loads of articles while smoking fags. I am trying to do the same, but just stay away from the tobacco. On Leo’s excellent Internet Marketing site where you can sign up for his amazing newsletters he talks about focusing on a broad niche and having lots of sites in the same general niche. My understanding of what he is saying is so that you can send yourself backlinks from related sites; you will be seen as an expert by others in your niche; and you genuinely will become an expert because you will be writing so much content about related products or concepts. So using one of Dave’s favorite examples, if you have a site about white socks, it would make sense to have another one about belts. You could even then think of starting a site about shoes. But is it really a good idea to start writing about acne? I have taken this advice to heart and now have decided upon my general niche and I’ve got a couple of performing sites within that niche. Over time I will start a few more sites and grow my network. One of the great things about this is that I will end up with less sites than I currently have – less overheads. While the sniper model may work for some, Ben warned against it after he had a network de-indexed and in my own experience I did not get it working the way that Dave’s Amazon method does.

I follow pretty much all the advice Dave gives me these days. It took me a while to take the plunge and join The Keyword Academy so I could use the Postrunner system even though he was telling me how good it was for at least a month before I joined. If you are relatively new to MMO and are not yet making 100s of dollars then this suggestion is for you. Do you have a site with over 50 pages of content in a niche that you believe will make you money? If so, then it might be time to start sending it some serious backlinks. The Keyword Academy which includes the Postrunner system costs $1 for the first month (EDIT:now free) and then $33/month after that. Now this may seem expensive but to tell you the truth, it is actually the cheapest service that I use. And it may well be the most powerful! Dave has written about the service at length and there is not much to say other than, IT WORKS! But you have to make it work. Every article you submit must be hand written and at least 300 words in length. So it does take at least a couple of hours work a day to generate some good backlinks. But if you can write five articles an hour then in two hours you’ve got ten articles. Do that five days a week and you have fifty articles. That’s two-hundred unique articles for backlinks per month each with two backlinks. If you split that over two sites that’s a solid one hundred articles = two hundred backlinks per site. I can tell you from experience that this has a profound effect on SERPs position and number of unique visitors I am getting per day.

Part Time Work Pays

Working part time just means it takes longer to get the same amount of money than a full time job. But you do less work. One of Dave’s philosophies is to buy 10 domains and try to develop them into $500/month websites. If 10 seems like a large number, starting with fewer sites is an option. I already had a few websites when I started following Dave’s advice properly. I have turned one from a $100/month site in June 2010 into a potential $1000/month site in September of the same year. Unfortunately this is my only really good earning site but I’ve got another one brewing. All that remains is to keep going, then pick up a few more sites, get some content up and then backlink away. There definitely seems to be a hump to get over as an internet marketer that once you do establish a few sites that make a bit of money and have a bit of PR, it then becomes much easier to afford all the products that Dave recommends and do higher quality link exchanges. Both of these of course help to make even more money.

What do I mean by part time work? Dave coined this phrase at some stage on this Making Money on the Internet blog. He said something like “writing 10 articles a day is part time work”. I have been thinking that I should be getting 20 or at least 15 done seven days a week and this has led me to skip days and make excuses. So rather than set my sights too high I am now reverting to part time mode. As Dave has written numerous times, if we can’t manage 10 articles a day, even with a full time job then we really do have to question what we think we can achieve in the world of MMO. Ten articles works out at two 1 hour bursts. I try and get some written before work and then do some writing at work as well. In fact, this article is being written while I am “working”. So in this respect, my job is great. I do get plenty of down time.

It’s a Numbers Game

The more backlinks I create, the more visitors I get on my sites and the more money I make. Previously when I heard the statement, “it’s a numbers game” I just didn’t have the numbers of unique visitors to really see this clearly, now I do. I am sure it will depend niche to niche but my projection is that with between 1000-1500 unique visitors a day to my Amazon sites it will be easy to clear $3,000/month. This assumes that any new sites I start have the same conversion rate as my existing ones. With hard work and loads of backlinks I am beginning to wonder just how much money it will be possible to generate.

What I Would Do Differently

Looking back on it, I have wasted loads of time trying things that did not work out as well as plenty of procrastinating. But learning how NOT to do things is still valuable information and in some ways more valuable than simply being told what to do. Now I have a much better understanding why what Dave advocates is the way to do things. But if I was just starting out, and in some ways I am there are a few things that I would do differently. For a start, I would not even bother looking at the Google Keyword Tool or spend any time on keyword research. It is quite tempting and you can say to yourself that it is “working” but the only real working is in writing articles. Even though I make a little bit of money through Adsense, I would not even try to make money with Adsense to begin with. I would choose the affiliate product route with either Amazon or Commission Junction as Dave suggests. It will probably be a bit longer before you see any money come in. But once it starts it really could take off.

Secondly, I would start far fewer sites. This would save me money and also keep me focused. I would probably just start five sites in a related niche, e.g. clothing. Five articles a day five days a week gets you twenty articles on each site. This is a pretty good start. Writing five articles for one site each day of the week and scheduling the posts might make things a bit easier rather than writing on various topics each day. I have heard that The Keyword Academy training videos have a time line for how to build “Super Sites” but I have not sat down to watch their videos yet. This is something I might do next year. There seems to be quite a lot to get through and thanks to Dave, I kind of know what I should be doing anyway. When setting up my sites I only use the WordPress platform. The plugins that I make use of are the All in One SEO Pack, the Google XML Sitemaps and the Official Statcounter plugin.

With twenty posts across five sites after one month, I would spend my next month writing ten Postrunner articles per day (five days a week). As a matter of fact, this is what I am currently trying to do. Spreading these backlink articles across five sites works out at 40 backlink articles per site. If they have two backlinks per article that is 80 backlinks for each site. This only costs $1 for the first month. (EDIT: me again, free for the first month so a no brainer)

I would imagine that after a couple of months you will be able to see in Statcounter which of your sites are generating a bit of traffic. At this stage you have a choice. You can continue to spread yourself across all your sites or start to focus on just one or two. I think another month of working on all of the sites would be time well spent and then perhaps after the third month I would narrow my focus. Out of the five sites that I started, I think that after six months that I could have two of them making me over $500. There will of course be people who can do much better than this. However I was one of those doing much worse until I started listening to what Dave was saying and actually internalizing it.

The total cost of doing things this way is not particularly expensive at all. Of course, there are the hosting fees but if you want to avoid paying for hosting then you may as well stop right now. There are quite a few companies that provide Unlimited Hosting Accounts. This means that you can have as many domains as you want without it costing you any extra for the hosting. You do of course have to pay for the domains themselves. I recommend Webhostingpad as out of all the companies that I have used, they have the most knowledgeable support staff and their prices are very reasonable too.

What My Site Is About

Up until the Christmas holidays I am not planning on doing too much on my site, Docking Bay 94. While what I am doing is very similar to Dave’s method, as I am a part timer my experiences are different from the full time Bonnie and Clyde internet duo making sums that might make you think they did actually rob a bank. So my target audience is not really those of you who are already making thousands of dollars a month, but rather those of you who have yet to make a penny or break the $100/month threshold.

At the moment I am going to follow Dave’s advice and try to focus on my top earning sites to see if I can really get them humming in the run up to Christmas. After that I am going to plant a few more seeds and start some new sites. I will use these sites to start a MMO diary for 2011 and chart my progress. This is as much for myself as it is for anyone else. Part time internet marketing can pay off. We just have to have a plan. I’ll be revealing mine over the coming months.

There Is No Doubt About It, Dave Is THE Man

I really turned a corner and now know that I will be able to make a full time living online simply through following Dave’s advice. If you have a site (or two) that is making you over $50 a month and you know in your heart of hearts that you have not really backlinked it up properly, then stop spending time reading about MMO, stop researching keywords and stop buying new domains. Instead, sign up for The Keyword Academy if you are not already a member and start writing five posts a day to backlink your site. This should only take an hour. You can read a bit more about how to rewrite articles on my own site. If you only do this on weekdays, that is still 100 articles per month. Within a month or two you should start to see a decent increase in your traffic volume as well as the money your site generates.

All that remains is for me to thank Dave for giving me the honor of being his first guest poster. Thanks man!

And thank you Lando. Man, what a great article and it also does my ego no end of good too.

Check out Lando’s site and subscribe. I know he is going to have some cool stuff on there so leave him a comment so he feels all warm and fuzzy inside too.

Well, that saved me writing 3000 words so don’t forget that you can also send in a guest post. Read the guideline here and get yourself some dubious links from a stupid MMO blog just like Lando did.

So, that was a load of crap right?

Fancy saying you can make a grand a month just by writing content and then sending it backlinks!!!!

Bonkers. Surely you need an e-book to tell you how to really make money blogging? Don’t ya?

  112 Responses to “Part Time Internet Marketing”

  1. First of all, hello Lando – great to hear you are getting somewhere, and giving Dave a break from his internet God-dom.

    But

    Most Importantly… I think we need to get something straight…

    It is NOT that wobbly at all – it is merely a trick of the light sometimes. 😉

    Right now that’s sorted, you may carry on with your “making money online” chit chat…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Wifey,

    Yeah Lando you better watch it. Not that you can miss it 😉

    Hope she doesn’t come back or we are both in trouble!

  2. Dave, writing 3000 words for you was a little bit more refreshing than 10 Postrunners. Thanks again for all the support you’ve given me 🙂

    I actually had a friend ask me tonight about this making money with blogs thing and he told me I sounded like Ali G the way I was banging on about “my mate Dave”. Anyway, he took a note of your URL with instructions to check out your big Amazon post.

  3. Thanks Lando, good reality-checking post.

    I’m in a similar boat, with a day job and far too many domains. Starting to see some good signs now, and have learnt what to do and not to do.

    Don’t want to do this full time, but wanting to crank it up to at least $1k a month.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Billy,

    On one hand, learning “what not to do” seems like a waste of time. But on the other, it is really valuable to find out for ourselves rather than just being told what to do.

    How many articles a day are you pumping out?

  4. Hi Lando ‘n Dave (got a nice ring to it eh)
    I’m just curious about whether you promote strictly Amazon US, or UK as well. Do you find that the US is happier to shop on Amazon than the UK?
    Great post by the way, reflects very much where I am – Hopefully I can make some progress in time for Xmas
    Best regards!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Dean,

    If Dave was a pirate, I’d be the parrot on his shoulder! He wrote somewhere that UK shoppers are not are willing to part with their cash as US shoppers. And this is what I have found too.

    It is easy to test this in your niche as well. YEMV. Text links under a picture of your product for US and UK shoppers is one idea, e.g. – “U.S. Shoppers Click Here – View The Lowest U.K. Price”

    My Amazon commission for this month to date:

    U.S. > $800
    U.K. < £20

    I am convinced anyone can make money online as long as we do the right kind of work. How many backlinking articles are you writing per week? Do you do a little bit most days?

    p.s. Thanks for the compliment. Now I am beginning to see why Dave is doing this blog. No one, other than spammers leave comments on my other blogs telling me how good it is!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    We definitely find it hard to get UK sales too. We often include both links like Lando does but the ratio of who buys to who doesn’t is like 20:1

    US folks love to shop online it seems.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Dave,

    And I love US folks for their love of shopping online.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, Here’s to hoping the US will never wise up and will always keep its head up its asshole, even if it means living in a perpetual state of recession.

  5. Thanks for the very interesting post.

    I have one question. I have one site that been making 1K a month now, however I have never done any backlinking on it, though it ranks very well for competitive terms and long tail keywords. However my question is, should I start backlinking now and risk been deindexed with your methods, the fear is postrunner as it leaves a trail, which appears to be fairly big one – wordpress, mix content sites, I have seen many of them and unfortunately they leave a big trail? This is my fear at this stage. Would you risk it? …

    Though I have two school of thoughts at the moment, my authority sites let time play its part and slowly build links through an organic method. The Dave method which I am focusing on for about 30 sites and backlink the crap out of them from BLP, PR and other methods. I let you know my results.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Norm,

    $1000 a month and no backlinking work!? I would love a site like that.

    As far as I am concnered, Postrunner is totally safe. That is a huge part of the beauty of the system. Focusing on 30 sites? I find it hard enough to focus on two!

  6. Hey Lando,

    Great article and you actually read my blog too – damn that means I need to update it more 😉

    I’m a part time IM’er as well (as you probably already know). I’d love to do the full time bonnie and clyde thing like Dave & Gorgeous Wifey (us girls need to stick together) but my other half thinks working 9-7pm at a real job is his calling – sigh. Oh well – I guess there can only be one IM in this family. (Maybe I could teach the cat a few tricks .. hmmm)

    Oh Dave .. I finally used BPhilliphines too – I’ll let you know my results.

    t xx

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Tracey,

    What I love about part time IM is that the money is not the same as a part time job. We can hit the crazy highs. It will just take us longer to get there. I hope BP works out for you.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Tracey,

    Cool. Let me know how they worked out for you, they have been getting me some very good results lately.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I’ve used them too with a 120 links. I thought they’d write articles, but it’s all forum links!

    Oh well, if you say it’ll get me results, I believe you.

    Don’t you think they are simply using a program such as SENuke to create all those profiles?

    Seems to me like it would be cheaper to just buy SENuke.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Blackthorne,

    Dude they say on the site what the links are. I haven’t looked at SENuke, if it gives you links from high PR sites and is affordable then it would be cheaper long term I’m sure.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Guess I should’ve read better. But it doesn’t make a difference.

    You say BLP works, so I believe it. I’m glad I spent $36 on trying it. I wonder if it will help me out!

  7. Nice to read. You told site which is making $50 month wihtout backlink can do better if we give some backlink. Shall i backlink my hubs too which is making few dollars..every day without and bklnks.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @All Is Well,

    For sure. If it is not number 1 for its keywords, backlinks will help. If your hubs link to your main site, you will get a double bonus!

  8. I have commented on this site numerous times about how much I appreciate this site and Dave, he actually saved my internet marketing career. I was headed down the wrong path. I got too caught up in all the Ebooks, Warrior Forum BS, and so much of the other things that can be distracting.

    This will be my best month in years and I have done mostly what Dave has talked about, not exactly, but mostly. I have not backlinked enough but since I have started to do that more the results are terrific. Backlink Philippines has simply been amazing.

    I have one site that I have NO doubt will make me two to three thousand a month within a year, and two other sites that will probably do the same or better. And that is find and dandy with me. My life in the Philippines will be just great making that type of money. And I can FIRMLY see now that those numbers are actually small compared to what is possible.

    As you and Dave say….this is not rocket science. Get content up, go after tough keyword phrases if you think it is worth it (trust me it is) and get backlinks. It makes ALL the difference in the world.

    For the first time in my internet marketing career I feel I have a solid business plan and my business is on solid ground, now it is up to ME to continue the momentum.

    If people follow what Dave says and do what you have done…they will succeed. I think people want instantaneous results but we are getting traffic through search engines and that takes some time.

    But what is interesting is that one day you wake up and check your account and realize “Geez, this stuff really does work!” But there is work to be done and it must be done..if not you can forget any success. Either YOU have to do it, or you hire someone to do it…but it must be done.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Todd,

    It’s strange that it’s such an aha moment when we realize that we actually have to do a bit of work to get some success. Maybe it is to do with the fact that results are not apparent straight away.

    Seems like we are both discovering with our own experiences that hard work pays off.

    The cult of Dave is alive and well. I hope he’s not going to make us all marry him!

  9. Great post Lando,

    I’ve just started IM, like, from scratch. Been following Dave’s advice, so it’s saving me a great deal of time by not going down the wrong path.

    It’s probably too late for me to cash in on Christmas, but will attempt it anyway. If not, then there’s always next year.

    I’ve also been following Lis, Tracey and Leo, awesome MMO group here! Would be good to hear about BacklinkP. My personal opinion is that profile links may not last too long if P a u l and A n g e l a lists get abused to the death and the big G finds out…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Derek,

    If you’re knocking out the articles then you never know what might happen before Christmas.

    As far as BP goes, it works just now and that’s what counts.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Derek,

    Derek I made $2K last Christmas with a site I started in October on a brand new domain so go for it.

    Profile links do work now but in the future that could all change. I would just make sure it is just a small part of your backlink profile. Lots of variety of backlinks is the key to this and to stay safe.

  10. A big word of warning to all who read the comments, those that don’t are missing out.

    Watch your Hubs. A nice reader posted a link to a video and post on Hubpages on the last article which made for scary reading. http://learningcenter.hubpages.com/a-guide-to-backlinking/ Thanks Johric

    Well. The Wife had a Hub deleted for:

    Your Hub has been identified by our system as a violation of our Terms of Use.

    Promoted through spam or abuse of other sites
    This may include, but is not limited to:
    Spamming of comments, forums, or profiles or by email or chat
    The creation of spam blogs or spam pages on other sites to promote this hub
    The use automation tools to do any of the above

    The Hub is now gone and it remains to be seen what happens to the rest of our Hubs.

    So, move on and rank your own stuff. There is no way you can rank Hubs highly without some kind of automation or system. If you make decent money from Hubs then treat them with kid gloves. But get your own sites up as you never know what will happen in the future.

    They are obviously on a search and destroy mission. That Hub did have a MAS run and a Backlinks Philippines run as well as Postrunner submissions. But I get the feeling that if they see lots of article links and think you could not have done them manually then they will delete the Hub. Who knows if the accounts will stay or not.

    Anyway, this is part of the game and why diversity is key.

    Sorry to interrupt the post Lando but I figured the sooner people know they really are doing what they say in the Hubpages video the more warning people have to think about their strategies.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Dave,

    I know one of your good lady’s very well performing Hubs but was glad to see that it wasn’t that one that got deleted. It’s important to cover yourself from all angles in this game! And this just goes to show that developing our own sites really is the safest way for long term success.

    On Leo Dimilo’s blog he often talks about Google-proofing your business and as I work towards a full time income, this is something that will start to occupy more of my time.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Time will tell what happens to the Hubs. Losing so much money a month would not be good but this is why we always double/triple up and more on stuff that works. And I advise others to do the same.

    I may try snipsly. From what I remember they allow aff links and with some backlinks they rank well. But your own sites are always best.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Dave,

    I just did a 200 BP run on 5 of my Hubs earlier this month. But I think they have bigger, Dave sized, fish to fry!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Let’s hope they stay up Lando, but I think it is time to move on to content mostly on our own sites or other properties from now on.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Norm Reply:

    @Dave,

    From what I learnt in the MMO world people want money fast 😉 me been the same. However if you continue to build content, and allow the rest like link building do itself it will come but it is very slow.

    Unfortunately no one ever this patience anymore. If we all had loads of time then we never need to worry about link building. The most important these days rank as the following

    Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:

    @Dave,

    I had 2 of my hubs deleted today. Granted, I was spamming like crazy and each one had over 10k comment links showing in yahoo. Several of my others haven’t been noticed, lets hope it stays that way.

    I think I am pretty much done with hubpages for the future. From the sound of it they don’t even want us using article submitters.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Josh,

    Now that is a lot of links!!!

    I am done with them now, I just hope they don’t all go though as there is a lot of money at stake. But that is the price we pay for using others properties.

    They don’t want links from any automated processes at all it seems, which means long tails only, and that is if you are lucky. Competitive terms will simply not be possible now.

    My own sites only from now on too.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:

    @Dave,

    It was enough links to make google sandbox it. I didn’t even know that was possible with web 2.0s. So I never made any money from them anyways… Still, its unfortunate. (kind of frustrates me actually that I can make a page get 15k links in less than a month but search engines ignore them them haha).

    This is pretty irrelevant to most of your audience, but it seems like google made an algorithm change around the same time google instant came out and they are now better at detecting spam. I believe they are just looking for specific footprints, and when 99$ of your links are comment links or profile links you stands out like a sore thumb. Either way, this may apply to profile links even in small numbers like you get from BLP. It looks like the worst that is coming from it is just having the links discounted.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Dave, LOL that video is hilarious! “it’s like paying people to be your friend” .. ROFL. (oh hang on a sec, I did pay dave to be my friend by clicking the donate button – yikes).

    Their suggestion is to just write quality content and the links will come. Oh good grief. They really have no idea.

    Looks like we might be finding another pool to play in soon.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Tracey,

    They are definitely freaking out, that is for sure.

    Once this spreads they will see a massive loss in revenue. I am certainly never sending a link to Hubpages again or putting any new content on. If we can’t market our content then what is the point. It will just hang in no man’s land where all the other skint Hubbers live.

    Who on earth is going to naturally link to a Hub about white socks? It takes self promotion.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Teatree Reply:

    @Dave,

    Wow, that kind of weakens their whole system doesn’t it? Lots of hubs rank because they get internal linkluv from related hubs that have a lot of backlinks. Take out the hubs with the links, and you get a domino effect bringing down lots of other hubs.

    I totally understand sites being strict about what kind of content is being posted, but who can control backlinks? What’s to stop someone seeing a hub in the spot above them, and spending a few dollars spamming them to get them unpublished?

    I wonder what prompted this. Did Google have a word with them, perhaps?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Teatree,

    They are obviously worried about going the way of Squidoo.

    The Wife has caused a bit of a stir on the forums at Hubpages too.

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/54280

    Vote -1 Vote +1Teatree Reply:

    @Dave,

    Just had a look at that forum thread, and someone from Hubpages staff posted the following (my bold)

    “Moderation for abusive spamming is based on the way that links have been presented, not by the number of links. This is a rare violation. We carefully review every Hub flagged for abuse before moderating”

    I think your wife’s hub was flagged. Which means someone – a competitor – saw she was ranking and wanted to take her down. And Hubpages helped them! Yikes, this opens a can of worms.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Teatree,

    The stupid thing is that it was a Hub that was NOT ranking well. It had actually dropped out for a while which many sites do for a week or two when they get a lot of links.

    But it is a worry. And the email that she got said it was just an automated removal and had not been manually flagged. It just hit some algo somehow I guess.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Carrie Reply:

    @Dave,

    Ah crap, I just bought links to hubs. Hopefully they go unnoticed.

    Well, time to rethink my backlink strategy.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    Actually the more I think about it, the easier I think it will be to ‘game’ hubpages now (if you wanted to of course).

    First you could easily knock out your competitors by sending them a few hundred links (they’ve already said on the forums that they think 150 links is excessive !!)

    And secondly, all you need to do is create a few inbetween pages. Point your links at these ‘buffer’ pages which then link to your hubpage. That way it will look like you only have a few pages linked to your hubs which won’t raise any alarm bells.

    Of course – having your own sites will be much easier and less hassle 😉

    This overreaction from hubpages just shows their naivety about backlinking. From reading their responses in the forums, they think ANY form of unnatural link building is evil. (yes they actually used the word evil) LOL.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Derek Reply:

    @Tracey,

    Absolutely agree Trace,

    I think it’s naive to think that people will ‘naturally’ link to you, and I think this is brought about by G applying pressure – they don’t want to be slapped like Squidoo – to a certain extent Hubs have been abused. However, in cracking down they will find that their domain authority won’t be as strong (won’t be as many links coming in, duh!) and if so, why would anyone use their platform? It’s a sad self-perpetuating cycle unfortunately.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Derek,

    That’s what gets me about the anti backlinkers on Hubpages. They say they don’t believe in backlinking yet they make money with Hubpages only because others have backlinked Hubs to raise the authority of the site.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Tracey,

    Some of the folks at Hubpages are absolutely bonkers. I can’t believe how full of themselves they are.

    That is a good tip though Tracey to gather the link juice and just send it on to the Hubs.

    What I love is the backlinks ad showing up on the homepage, kind of says it all.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Tracey, And secondly, all you need to do is create a few inbetween pages. Point your links at these ‘buffer’ pages which then link to your hubpage. That way it will look like you only have a few pages linked to your hubs which won’t raise any alarm bells.

    Now that is where the money is. While earlier you would BL a hubpage and then use the authoritative hubs that you had to link out to your site, now you just flip the idea on its head. Use your authority site to claim another listings in the SERPs Top 10.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Carrie Reply:

    @Tracey,

    I only planned to use HP as a feeder to my sites, but if I could get a few bucks from them directly then great. But if I now need a buffer to my feeder – that’s just too much work. I’d rather use Squidoo.

    I just don’t get the HP mentality. I can understand if they frowned on an Xrumer run, but 150 links is excessive? I wonder what kind of filtering system they are using.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Carrie,

    The mad thing is that because of our “activities” we probably made Hubpages about $4K this month. It is just now a worry about whether to make more and risk them being taken down.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Carrie, Speaking of Squidoo, I’m starting to get interested in them again – they seem very responsive to backlinks (but don’t rank anywhere just on their own though). Plus they’ve got all the monsters and quests now .. how cute .. ok I’m being a girl now instead of an internet marketer 😉

    But seriously, now that the Clickbank crowd have moved on from them, using them for Amazon might work – let me do some more testing …

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Tracey,

    Monsters and quests?

    I am going to have to take a look. But is is just me or do Squidoo pages load very slowly?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Carrie Reply:

    @Dave,

    HEY! Don’t you and wifey going ruining Squidoo with your cyborg backlinking.

    Be warned, Squidoo has a list of topics that are not allowed, but since you focus on Amazon products you’ll likely be okay.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Carrie,

    I’ll be good, promise.

    I mostly just do my own sites anyway. I got burned with blogger, even before I ever used a tool, and lost my first ever blog that made money every day, so I learnt my lesson then.

    Luckily I had doubled up and built up my own hosted site for the niche because of my paranoia, I kind of have my own mini Hubpages anyway, i.e a nice authority site to test things on.

    Right, I wonder how many links I can throw at a Lens 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Dave,
    Damn. I read this thread in HP forum, but I did not think it was related to you. The stupidity of other hubbers discussing the subject made me sort of ironic about all this, but now it is not even funny.

    I wrote a comment about this on another post, but it seems it is stuck in the spam filter because it had couple of links. Now I realize that I was too ironic in my comment, so I think it would you better delete it. Anyway the most important part of discussion is here.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Johric,

    I thought you left a good comment, it is still pending if you change your mind. Some of them folks are downright bonkers though. And condescending to say the least.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Dave,
    Please delete this pending comment on other post. I will rework it an publish it here. Thanks!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Johric,
    So here is what HP staff members said about this issue.

    HP person #1: “The problem is the abuse of other sites. In other words, spamming.
    As the automated email users are sent should they have a hub moderated for this reason:
    We do not moderate hubs simply for having backlinks, or for having a certain number of backlinks. It is the nature of the backlinks, ie, whether or not they were obtained responsibly, or at the expense of other sites.
    We moderate only a handful of hubs for abuse of other sites, so very very few hubbers need to worry about this, and chances are, they’re not in the forums anyway.
    I’m pretty sure this thread has run its course, so I’m going to close it now. Hopefully that will also mean that people actually read this response as opposed to blowing past it.”

    HP person #2:”Moderation for abusive spamming is based on the way that links have been presented, not by the number of links. This is a rare violation. We carefully review every Hub flagged for abuse before moderating. If you have any questions or concerns about your own backlinking practices, please feel free to contact us.”

    MY THOUGHTS
    * I am wondering if HP see all backlinks of hubs (thanks to some special agreement with Google), or they only see what is in publicly available Google and Yahoo reports.
    * I think the hub can get flagged if
    1) script running on HP servers notices some pre-set linking pattern
    2) anybody (competitor) submits complaint
    3) owner of web property (forum, blog, etc) where you drop your backlinks submits complaint
    * Manual article marketing (article directories, PostRunner, Build My Rank) is on the safe side. The only problem is that if the hub gets deleted, you lose time invested in writing PostRunners as you can not edit the links in there.
    * If you have all hub articles and pictures saved, and the hub gets deleted, you can make new hub under the new account, then use more advanced linking strategy, like buffer sites. Or add new page to your own website.
    * Big volume forum profile backlink building is evil. Big volume is more than 3 links according to HP purists.
    * If any mean person wants competitor’s hubs deleted, he just has to fire up Xrumer or SENuke.
    * New HP strategy – make many profiles and put small amount of hubs (5-10? ) on each profile to control the damage in case the whole profile gets axed.
    If you are paranoic: *don’t use Adsense and Amazon capsules, so that admins don’t see connection between these profiles *use separate Amazon code and different email address for each profile, *use proxies when accessing hubs.
    * New HP backlinking strategy – instead of blasting hundreds of links at your hubs, create a buffer ring of free blog sites around your hub. Sign up to 10 or so free blog sites like Blogger, Tumblr. Xanga, etc. Rewrite your hub article 10 times and put each article on other blog site with link back to your hub. Now backlink the hell out of your buffer blogs. They will gain PR and feed it to your hub. More work and takes time. If needed, you can always edit the links and link your buffer sites to other pages/sites. More details here – http://backlinksforum.com/showthread.php/1616-Free-seo-advice?p=14859&viewfull=1#post14859
    *Other day I read a discussion on Backlinks Forum (BF). Some backlinks guys got trolled on Warrior Forum by other kind of ‘purists’ – article marketing purists who also are claiming that backlinks are evil and spam. BF guys were discussing an experiment – launching Xrumer at article marketers sites/pages and then submitting spam complaint to Google to check if Matt Cutts is right and if it is not possible to damage other sites with backlinking. That is evil. Don’t try this at home 😉

    * An last but not least – focus your own sites!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Johric,

    Great comment Dude.

    The main thing that gets me is that the Hub removed didn’t have any properly dodgy links. Just the usual stuff a lot of folks now do.

    Article submissions and forum profiles. I think it was removed because you could see if you look at the links that they were spun as there was a MAS run involved. And this would go against their new backlinking terms, i.e using any kind of software or automation for link building.

    But the Wife isn’t angry with them or anything. It is their site and they can do what they feel is best, it is entirely up to them. Something has obviously worried them and they are taking the steps they feel are right. My only concern is that as you point out it seems like it would be easy to get rid of a competing Hub with a simple forum profile run. Then tell the forum owner about it and ask them to complain to Hubpages about it. I think it would be that easy. Not that I would condone such actions unless it was because someone you knew stole your niche.

  11. Just a quick addition to my post. After following Dave’s advice properly for 2 months my previously under performing sites have now started to do much better and my Amazon commission has for the first time broken the $1000 barrier in one month with another 8 days to go. This s&*t works!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Billy Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Nice Lando! What was it you were missing before? Backlinks or the content? I’m guessing backlinks; they’re the hardest part.

    I’m not doing many articles at the moment; been doing some site building and optimization. Been playing with BuildMyRank which makes articles a little less painful, so might stick with that.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Billy,

    I was missing both. So I in July/August I added content and backlinks. Now, just backlinks. Since the middle of July, I’ve submitted over 300 Postrunner articles for my domain that is performing the best. It’s work is all. But even working part time, the results are starting to come.

  12. Hey Dave and Lando,

    I just found this site today and I read at least 10 posts already. It’s good stuff. I agree that you have to diversify your income sources. I read about Pat Flynn over at smartpassive income and I think he said he has like 23 different sources of online / passive income. Now, he’s diversified.

    Larry

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Easy Van Larry,

    23? Wow, I can’t even think of that many ways to diversify, that is definitely making sure you stay in business.

  13. So, when I launch the ebook, Dave, will you plug it?

    🙂

    Lando – great post! I’m printing it out, and solid intel. Dave: I had no idea you were allowing guest posts? Hmmm…

    Anyhow, thanks for the awesome first guest post – and that song you linked me to…was really disturbing. Are all Brits that way? There was no tea, no queen, no pomp…I was confused. They acted too American.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    It was definitely an odd one, but the talk show is great, I get the podcast all the time.

    Sorry about the lack of tea though 😉

  14. This has come at a very opportune time for me. I have recently smacked myself upside the head with the realisation that the sites that are pulling in good money every month are the sites I should be concentrating the majority of my effort on.

    Like most I have been flitting from site to site like the plate twirlers in the circus. What it has left me with is a bunch of sites each earning a modest amount.

    Six days ago I made a decision to concentrate my efforts down to a couple of sites with the aim of building 10 PR articles per day for a month.

    My sites are actually ePN sites, mainly due to the fact that they’re still bringing in significant money each month. (The change to QCP didn’t adversely affect me). Also my two best niches are poorly represented on Amazon.

    Lando, your post has added to the momentum with which I have attacked this latest project. In my mind I knew that what I was doing was going to give me great results but the confirmation makes the next bunch of articles even easier to (re-)write.

    The only thing standing in my way in the foreseeable future is the AFL Grand Final tomorrow afternoon. (Carn the Pies!!!)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Damien,

    A bit of motivation from others is always a great help and it sounds like Lando has given it in spades.

    The results of really knuckling down to a few sites really does pay off big time, a month can see some amazing results.

    And as to the last paragraph????????????

    That football or something?

  15. Hey Lando that was a great guest post, completely relate to it and got me all fired up to get on with it. Then I read your most recent post about following Dave’s plan and breaking through the $1000 barrier on Amazon – that’s just brilliant mate.

    That Dave bloke kind of knows what he’s talking about don’t you think? 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Tara,

    Thanks for the kind words. While Dave claims he’s an Internet Marketing noob, he just tells it like he sees it…and it is working for me!

    I’m just narrowing my focus on to a couple of sites to prove to myself that Dave’s system works, and then start some new ones in the new year.

    Let’s get on with it!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Hey it’s my 2 year anniversary now, I am no longer a noob I am now a noobish.

  16. i just feel like i’m constantly smashing my head against the wall with this
    i went on a 2 month bender building sniper sites – then mayday
    i just went on a massive bender smashing otu article after article, buying links to my hubs then this – i’m running into perhaps getting those crushed by the non sensical behaviour of hubpages.

    do i go back to working on my main sites? getting links to those, backlinking the backlinks and perhaps then worrying about ezines, squidoo and the other major directory horde following the hubpage suit and deleting excessive backlinked web 2.0 properties. Its like you’re constantly on the verge of being f*cked over and having to be the mr “i’ve just smoked 3 bongs” paranoid all the time..

    if hubpages decide to delete excessive backlinked hubs even thou you can possibily use this to destroy your competitors, would it be a fair stretch of the stoned imagination to think that google may in fact do the same down the track?

    I’ll feel better tomorrow when collingwood loses, but seriously, doesn’t seem like i can quit my day job anytime soon. go bombers.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Damien Reply:

    @hurley,

    You realise this means war, don’t you? 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1hurley Reply:

    @Damien,

    excellent game, hopefully just as good this week!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @hurley,

    Huh?

    Vote -1 Vote +1hurley Reply:

    @Dave,

    Australian rules grand final was last week, it was a draw and we’re having another one here in Melbourne this saturday 🙂

    http://www.afl.com.au

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @hurley,

    Aah, you know I used to love watching that on Channel 4 about 25 years ago. Shit, man, I am getting old!

    It’s like Rugby for grown ups, I remember they were some hard men. Stick a football player in there and see what they are really made of.

    Um, GO THE ?????????????????

    Vote -1 Vote +1hurley Reply:

    @Dave,

    Bombers!!

  17. Lando,
    I really like that post-I am going to head over and read your blog. I definitely want to keep up with your progress.

    I think everyone, especially myself wants to see that people are making-it just makes it seem worth it!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Kelly,

    For a long time I thought that people making it online were either just lucky or making it up. I never thought that I could be one of those guys. Now that things are starting to pick up for me too, I have realized that all it comes down to is hard work and a willingness to take a few risks. It might not work out, but if you never try then it definitely won’t.

  18. Re: the HubPages scare –

    I haven’t really had the problems noted here, but it’s enough to linkwheel a Hub, and beat the daylights out of the articles (Ezine, whatever is in your “wheel”) with the postrunners, etc.

    It’s worked on my websites anyhow, having just a few spokes that I pummeled with links. Just make sure Hubpages isn’t part of the wheel, obviously. 🙂

    Same plan. Just indirectly.

  19. Yeah. Just went to the forum. I could take certain Hubbers and grind them in a meat processor. The purist approach and this crap about “cleaning up Google is a good thing” is too rich.

    I’d like to take the HubPages editor and the guy with the rainbow mop on his head – can’t say his name, it’s He Who Must Not Be Named – and [censored for violent content].

    It’s really funny, “150 backlinks to one Hub? Wow…that’s excessive….”

    What planet are we on? Where do these people live, and do they make more than $500 a month with 1,972,673,871 hubs?

    REALLY? OK…so…I should continue to build up HP as an authority site while being satisfied with $0.75 per Hub per month…if I do my calculations correctly…that’s…

    FREAKING NUTS.

    Vote -1 Vote +1All Is Well Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance, Hubpages has real high traffic and alexa rank is 193. They are trying to save there business. What if Google slaps them. because this is the only site which has large number of experts out who use adsense, amazon and ebay. and earning full time income.

    I think they possibly earn $20-50 million per year..a wild guess of mine.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    A lot of my hubs that aren’t excessively backlinked make less than that. Some of them haven’t made $0.75 in the 5 months they have been around.

    But seriously, 150 backlinks are excessive? One of mine as 17,293 in yahoo as of this afternoon(its also sandboxed…). These purist “writers” are the most annoying people in the MMO world. I remember someone in the forum last year complaining that they weren’t making any money with 1000 articles. All these people tried to help them learn SEO, backlinking, adsense keywords etc… and he absolutely wouldn’t have it.

    However….I’m willing to admit that they probably should go after hubs like the ones I create. With their change of heart though, I’m going to spend my time working on sites I actually own.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    Some of the people in that thread are so full of themselves I don’t even know where to begin. I would imagine that a lot of people are going to be very disappointed with Hubpages if they follow the advice not to backlink.

    The mad thing is that the Wife was not even being arsey, she just wanted to warn others so they don’t lose their Hubs.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Dave,
    Darn women. Always outflanking me.

    Your wifey’s a good’un. Sorry I flamed.

    Can we still have tea?

    @ All is Well –

    You’re right, of course – as Dave mentioned, it’s their property, they have to look out for themselves.

    I came here RIGHT after reading most of the forum…the rainbow haired guy, He Who Must Not Be Named, obliquely mentions me in one of his retorts.

    No, he doesn’t mention ME but he touches on a comment I made in one of his Hubs. I was incensed to say the least.

    I am also ticked because this is what I do for a “way out” of this trap of working 80-100 hour weeks, and no, I’m not joking.

    This concept of “do not backlink, just write great content and chew gum, sing a tune, and think happy thoughts” is infuriating – it’s fine for HubPages to say that:

    They have an army of FREE LABOR. They don’t need to break a sweat as their property explodes in content…

    Meanwhile, those of us who don’t own multi-million dollar monoliths – people like me who slug it out with my spine turning to jelly thank you I can’t exercise because I have a backlog of work – those of us fighting in the trenches for their cheddar –

    We aren’t supposed to backlink.

    Sorry, HubPages – I don’t have 1k INTERNAL LINKS to toss at any one page to outrank the queen and the president on a whim.

    Guess what that means?

    I gotta freaking backlink, dolts! (Not you, All is Well – just ranting.)

    The stupidity is this: ** I can’t get a real job. **

    Not one that pays. I moved to Idaho to make a living – you know what happened when I got here?

    Um…that fun little thing called the recession hit.

    I was forced to work for … nevermind. Needless to say, “All is NOT Well” in my neck of the woods, and personally I think 99% of those on HP who are using it for their artsy “I love to write about butterflies and poetry” hobbyists who can’t GET where I’m at –

    you know, the guy with 8 kids and a really, really sucky economic outlook unless I can work my tail off for this next year and kick some serious tail? Yeah, that’s me –

    I’m NOT on HubPages or Squidoo because I LOVE TO WRITE.

    I’m there to FEED MY KIDS.

    And to hear this absolutely short-bus riding drivel about “Don’t backlink!” Is HOGWASH.

    This is not my hobby – it’s my life, it’s how I keep the lights on, so until I’m a multi-million-dollar, authority-site-publisher for AdSense who increases his dominance of Google without actually DOING anything (because I have free, happy labor who have drunk my Kool Aid) –

    Unlike Dave’s wonderful bride – it sort of rubs me the wrong way.

    ((flame off))

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    Feel better?

    It always is best to get things off your chest, here is some good news, I think.

    I have been doing some reading on Hubpages forums today, in between tiling a bloody floor (sigh).

    From what I can gather it is the forum profile backlinks that they really don’t like. An admin talked about it in a long thread about buying backlinks. Man people with stupid wigs are such idiots.

    I really now think that this was why the Hub was taken down. I reckon just stay away from forum profile links for Hubs and hopefully all should be cool.

    But really? Who knows? Only the owners I guess.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JamestheJust on Elance Reply:

    @Dave,
    Yes. Feel much better, actually. 🙂

    The “trouble” with IM is that you have nowhere else to “vent.” No water cooler, not all our wives want to hear about Google slaps and silly backlink taboos.

    I think I was emotionally constipated. Your blog’s fiber, man.

    But that IS good news, actually, and at least makes a little sense.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @JamestheJust on Elance,

    I get that totally. I have the Wife to talk about this weird game with. If I didn’t I think I would find it very tough at times. It is also a help when trying to figure out why things happen etc.

  20. @Dave – I was wondering if the fact that the hub was not ranking well and not pulling in significant income was a deciding factor to nuke it. Since these hubs seem to go through a manual review after the algo flags them, it wouldn’t surprise me if they have a soft spot for ones that make them money. Gives the impression of cleaning up without the revenue loss…and scares away IMers. Just a bit of conspiracy theory for ya. And that is what I would do if I were them…

    Side Note:
    I’ve also been working my but off for the last couple months on a site. Now at the top I’ve found google wasn’t even close at the number of searches…and the product doesn’t convert on the looky-lous I do get. Ouch. What do you in that case before you move on to the next site? Slap on adsense, or just leave it as an affiliate site and hope they buy something…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Pete,

    I would leave it to see if it converts at Christmas then after that put up adsense if it is worth it. Then dry your eyes and try again.

    You would not believe the work I have put in to some stinkers. Makes you wonder how you actually make money sometimes.

  21. Great news! Here is what HP editor, the one quoted above, says about backlinks “A link from a domain Google regards as “bad” (a website with illegal downloads, for example) can hurt your search engine ranking.” LOL

  22. Anybody else notice the Hubpages blog entry of a couple of days ago?

    An interview with Misha about his $100 per day hub. What advice does he have?

    “Once the hub is published, here comes the hard part—promotion. Frankly, I don’t bother with the usual forum favorites like shetoldme and other stuff of that kind. The money they promise are illusive and elusive and they require the amount of time per single backlink I can not afford. I use several free and paid services to do the job, and if I decide to promote a hub, backlinks are measured in hundreds if not thousands.”

    Hmm…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Craig, How weird. And on his hub about backlinking he talks about using Angela’s links (profile links).

    Hmmm why would hubpages publish this just days after they started deleting what they consider ‘spammy forum links’.

    Are they trying to backtrack? Do they think they overreacted and now trying to smooth things over so they don’t get authors leaving?

    I don’t get it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Tracey,

    Me either. The Wife just told me about this too. And apparently Misha is a very strong advocate of getting lots of links and talks about it a lot in the forums.

    Talk about confusing those new to Hubpages where on one hand they say just write them and the traffic will come and then promote examples where people make good money by doing what Hubpages say not to do. It would make your head spin.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Craig,

    I just went and read it, man Hubpages are full of it. He gets a link to a Hub about how to promote them and the first thing he talks about is Angels forum profile packages.

    And in the Forums the actual Hubpages admins are specifically saying NOT to use forum profiles as backlinks. Especially automated ones.

    So how come they said nothing about it in the interview or warned others against it? Wat a load of b*******

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Craig,
    I read the interview today. Don’t know waht to think.
    Actually Misha was the first person who came to my mind when al this backlink fuss started. I follow him since summer, and I am paying attention to his backlinking strategies. One neat trick which I am trying to implement in couple of my profiles is backlinking my hubber profile page hxxp://hubpages.com/profile/[myhubbername]. His profile page has 470+ reported backlinks (think 5-10x more actual backlinks), and it has also PR4 that gives nice boost to his hubs thru (internal) links.

    I also thought about this profile backlink situation. There is one more thing that might make a difference – single-pass and double-pass forum profile backlinking. I am not sure which method Backlink Philippines are using.

    Here is the difference.
    Single-pass method – make new profile and immediatelly drop your links in profile. Set and forget. Pros – speed. Cons – ~20% of profiles are deleted by admins who check new user profiles.

    Double-pass method – make new profile WITHOUT links. Then return 4-8 days later and drop your links in profiles that have survived moderation (close to 95-99% IMO). Pros – higher success rate. Cons – more work, slower.

    Imagine that in case of single pass method admins can not only delete your profile, but also investigate the links and make complaints 😉

    Cheers!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Johric, I’ve been thinking recently about backlinking my HP author page too. Scrapebox comments are more likely to be accepted with an actual name than with “Buy Cheap Blue Midget Thongs” after all.

    With regards to the forum profile methods I’d imagine (and this is just my guess) that it wouldn’t make much difference for HP. More likely that they have some automated flag for ‘excessive’ profile backlinks than that they’re responding to complaints from forum admins. I’ve noticed a few forums requiring that people build up a certain post count before they can put links in their profile, which seems far more efficient for admins than complaining to the backlinks’ recipients.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Craig,

    So somebody left comment to this blogpost asking if these Misha’s hubs will be deleted.
    Here is the answer from Hubpages (guy that was interviewing Misha)

    “We strongly suggest everyone read our Learning Center post on backlinking [URL snipped]. We will be detecting and banning accounts that use spammy techniques to get backlinks to newly-published Hubs, so Hubbers should opt for a conservative approach to any backlinking effort.”

    Notice that he mentions “backlinks to newly-published Hubs” and “conservative approach to any backlinking effort”. Think link velocity?

    I believe that it does not look natural if webpage (or hub) that gets 10 visitors a day, suddenly gets 100 backlinks one day. I mean – who backlinks that page? People who have not seen it? 😉 And that is what Hubpages admins can perfectly monitor.

    Cheers!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Johric,

    Thanks for keeping us all updated. So, slow and steady it is then. I have actually returned to Devhub yesterday to see what they now rank like. I will let you know how it goes in a few weeks. They have a pretty slick interface now, but they don’t tell you the revenue share.

    I used to really like them but they stopped ranking, but I am testing to see how easy it is to get good serps with them and see if I can figure out the revenue split.

    A good place for a backlink though anyway.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Johric Reply:

    @Dave,
    Short update on backlinks and this blogpost about Misha success. There are new (and quite funny) comments on this blogpost.

    And there is also new thread on HP forums dedicated to backlinks where somebody announced that he (or she) is deleting all backlinks to his hubs. HP admins also chimed in with some new bits of info – quote: “I think we’ve been very clear that it is the type of backlinks that we look at when determining abuse: how they are obtained. If you have legitimate backlinks from your own sites and/or sites whose rules you have read and follow, you will not have a problem. If you leave spam comments on other people’s blogs, or links in forums in which you do not actively participate, use automated backlinking software, etc, that is the type of thing that will get your hub unpublished (..).”

    Cheers!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Johric,

    Cheers. Manual links it will have to be from now on to stay under the radar I think.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Johric,

    That thread is bonkers. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/55275

    The wig Dude really needs to chill out. He is obsessed with anyone who does something that he thinks Google says we are not allowed to do. Absolutely mad. He needs to write a product Hub and send it a few links, he may feel better if you could earn some decent money 😉

  23. Perhaps one hand simply doesn’t know what the other hand is doing? Hubpages has a fair few employees, I imagine, so perhaps the ‘bad backlinks’ team wasn’t aware of what the ‘blog’ team had lined up?

    Not an excuse, and very confusing to anybody newly coming to Hubpages, but a potential explanation.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Craig, Last I checked HubPages had 14 employees… But yes, there is a bit of a problem with the singularity of the message that they are sending out.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:

    @Craig,

    I thought that too. But they really are sending out a mixed message here.

    I’d leave a comment on the blog pointing out the contradiction, but I don’t want to draw attention to my hubs, & I’m too lazy to set up another account just for posting…

  24. So, for somebody new to HP, is it still worth it? I mean investing an hour or so to build a hub that you can’t rank, because you can’t get enough backlinks without getting screwed. I’ve reen rading tracey’s blog and she makes a good point about adding your own amazon links in the hubs to make 100% of the commission. That sounds like a good way to experiment and earn a little while you’re trying to test a new niche.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Easy Van Larry, If you fancy it, then it’s got to be worth a try. Point article marketing & postrunner links at your hub then use the article pages as a buffer for profile links.

    I’m not an expert or a guru, but if you feel like building a couple of hubs, you don’t have much to lose. Do your keyword research, backlink a little more subtly than you may have done before this brouhaha, and report back on the results!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Craig,

    Including all relevant keywords, of course 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Easy Van Larry,

    I am doing exactly as Craig is suggesting for a new site of mine. Hubs are a great source of backlinks for a money site. Fire a few decent article directory links at your hubs and then do your BP or BS on the article directory posts that you create at some time in the future. Starting off with just the free link building options means you can build up your Hubs and money site without spending much other than your time.

    Once you are earning a bit of income it then becomes worth investing in some tools.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Easy Van Larry,

    It’s what we do and it works well. After the 1 Hub going nothing else has happened and I have built a few more since. From what I uncovered I would say you can still backlink them heavily just don’t use forum profile links. But they are sending a mixed message from over there where everything is shiny and smells of puppy Dogs.

  25. Feeling like I am working more than a part-timer should. 30 BMRs written by my own hand today. I’m done.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Wow!

    That is some pretty good going Dude, have a lie down you deserve it.

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