".......and unfortunately nearly all make money online blogs are crap, so he, Dave, decided to write his own. It's pretty spankin."
Dalai Lama
Apr 232011

“and you can have it all, my empire of dirt!

I was going to call this Niche Domination ReLoaded but Wifey said it made me sound like a pathetic old man trying to get “down” with the kids, but a decade out of date, so, Niche Domination ii it is!

Some of this is inspired by Eli, I read his content again, after quite a while, and I am telling you that he knows what he is talking about. It may be 4 years old but it is still the best approach to take, and one that I am firmly pursuing, and have been. See the bottom of this post for a link to his article.

In the previous niche domination article I talked about the importance of satellite sites, both as back up in case your main site goes down, but also for good quality links. It needs to be talked about in more detail and this is what this post is about.

For me this is the most important thing I have probably written. This is for those that are serious about this game. Those that want it as a lifelong career. Not people who are playing and do not have the ability to put in the hours and actually do the work. Please pay attention. This is for those that are in it for the long haul. You can read other content on this blog to learn how to make money fast, and how to make a lot of money. It is all about the work, a lot of it, and little else, don’t let anyone tell you different. But for those that want this way of earning to be a lifelong, and very lucrative income then it is time to think very long term.

This post won’t be all shiny and nice like the first installment post. This is the real thing and this is what you seriously need to think about. My approach is going to totally change as far as I approach my online business and I think I am already somewhat late to the party. We shall see, but so far so good. This is not to say that I have not been doing what will be discussed for over a year, I have, but it is time to get serious and to really dominate the niches we choose to work in. We want them to be unreachable by our competition, and we want them to be as fail safe as anything that relies on search traffic can be.

First let’s take a look at just what bad things Dave and Wifey have done this past year shall we, it opened my eyes to what I have been doing and frankly, well, I felt a little bit sick. Seriously.

Okay, I am gonna say it.


7664 articles of 150 words or more. I told you I don’t play at this game. I work, Wifey works, our outsourcers work and we have a lot more sites than I probably talk about.

I mean, c’mon. Look, it works , and like a dream. All those build my rank article that me, Wifey and the paid staff do will rocket your sites in the serps and I mean seriously. We have made a fortune from BMR in terms of getting amazing ranking, but it needs to be reigned in and another way needs to be found. Sure, I will still use them, but differently. More on that later. We ain’t finished yet.

I have 2529 articles in Postrunner.  That is 758,700 words minimum. And it is increasing as I speak. AND, we have another Postrunner account as well. I am gonna say it again.


Oh, and those stats are from a week ago so the numbers are higher now.

Let’s continue shall we?

Talking with Wifey the other day and outlining our new approach I said I was a little worried about if it all went pear shaped, what we already have that is.

She made sense when she replied,

“Don’t worry about it, if we had to start again at least we have made enough in the past year to live on for about 12 years”

True indeed, and if you work like you only have one year left then you can earn an incredible sum of money. It is what we have done to some extent, as I talked about in the post on making money fast. But what about the whole of your future? Maybe we need to really think very long term too? I am. And I will share my new approach. It has basically come about after learning a lot of new stuff in the past week or two.

I have been introduced, by a great online friend, to the rather miraculous world of aged domains. Want to buy a site for $3 plus registration cost with a PR 5 Huffington Post link that is 4 years old? No problems, it is simple innit.

Want o buy a PR 4 site that is 10 years old with a handful of PR6 and PR5 links, simples. During my learning curve and subsequent spending spree (ongoing) I found out quite a lot of surprising stuff. A lot of the high PR links come from sites that have pages dedicated to listing all the resources they can possibly think of about their niche. I mean often hundreds. And the sites they linked out to all had good PR and authority. Coincidence? What do you think?

I have talked in the past about the fact that because of my paranoia, about a year ago I bought 15 or so new domains as backup for a niche. A little initial content was added to them and then they were kind of forgotten about for a while. But over the last 6 months they have been slightly re-purposed and made in to very small niche sites. Sites based around single products that send an ultra relevant link or two to the main big broader niche sites.

Links like that are golden. And we have about 15 or more of these sites for 1 niche. But, the authority is still fairly low and growing every month. Imagine if you can jump the queues by a coupe of years and start off with high authority and very quickly improve the quality and ranking of your main broad niche site. With aged domains you get to do exactly that. Links from respected sites are always going to give better results.

Not really up for debate that one.

So, here is my new approach and it contradicts a lot of what I have been saying the last year, at least to some degree.

But this is the fun and the fear of this game, you refuse to evolve at your peril. This is not a static business model, it changes. And often.

Many may think this is a reaction to me losing rankings on a few sites this last week. it isn’t. It has happened to me before and it will happen again. I had a lovely little niche site that took off right from the start. Daily sales and then BAM. Gone to Googles bad books for over a year. It is back now and doing as it should (make me money), this is the life we choose and the arena we choose to play in. You want guaranteed traffic then pay for it.

Dave’s New Game Plan

It has begun, and I am rather excited. But what I am not going to do is talk about how to buy aged domains and go in to details about how to ensure you buy quality, how to get good prices and how to really make the most of it all. Lando is going to release a lot of info on that and as he is my tutor it would be unfair to steal his thunder. That is the way to is and all I will say on the matter, for now.

So, as mentioned, for over a year now we have gradually been building up what are called satellite sites to support our main niche sites. 1 main site and lots of smaller sites hovering around it. Using keywords mined from the data of the large main site and smaller sites built around those terms.

Maybe the main site is for a general niche with hundreds of products?

Maybe you need to consider buying a relatively large number of sites to support each product. Or at the very least the main sellers in the niche. This is what me and Wifey have always done, and I probably do not talk about it enough. But the reality is that most are still only a year or so old. Before that a lot was a learning curve and we would concentrate on just a few main sites.

The problem is that at some point they become link saturated.

It starts to get out of control. As you have seen above with the number of links we have made. Now, these links are not all to main sites. An awful lot of them go to satellite or support sites. Plus to up and coming niche sites, and gasp, dare I say it, even to simply backlink the backlinks.

It works, and it works well.

There is a lot of talk of late of building up 1 single site and becoming the authority in that niche. To some degree I agree. Have a main site by all means that you spend most of your time of. But be realistic. At any point that site can be gone from the search engines never to return. A new algo, a bug, a hosting problem, the ways a site can disappear over night are endless.

You should at least be considering building up a series of sites in the same way as your main site to act as a backup if the worst happens. This does not mean that you are not inherently simply still working on one site. You are building up other sites that can link to your main site and that can act as a much needed fall back if your main site goes to the Dogs.

For a few niches we have a number of such set ups. We do the work, as you have seen. We work hard and we work most days. The reality is that almost every niche can be  profitable to some degree if you put the hours in. Me and Wifey are certainly not the cleverest when it comes to tech stuff, our knowledge is basic but we put it in to  practice, and we learn as we go. We discuss ideas with each other of an evening over a tiny tipple of Cava and we implement new strategies daily.

Many do not have the luxury of bouncing ideas of someone else, and that is what I am here for. But always test, and tweak and find new approaches.

Back to your niche domination.

Don’t rely on one site.

Many people say to do this and be the master of the niche. All well and good. Certainly you can spend a lifetime in a single niche, no doubt about that. But you want plenty of sites that you own that surround that site.

What you will find is that you can then use them to send links to your main site. You can send them Postrunner links, BMR, and anything else that you throw at them. These links that you send to your support sites will flow through the link on your support site to your main site.

It allows you to cut down on the number of links you send direct to your main site.

But the problem is that a new site has no authority and the links you send are likely to get it sandboxed if you do too many, and the links you send to the main site are worth little as the satellite sites have no history or authority. Up until now we have done  it the long way. Buy new site, add content, let them age a year or so then begin to build up the links to them.

Now we are at the stage that the support sites make money, they send authority inks and they can replace many of the main sites if the worst happens.

But, thanks to my good friend Lando I now have been implementing a short cut. In a month or less he will release a guide that I will endorse giving you all you need to know so that you can buy aged domains that are about to expire because the webmaster has not renewed the domain registration.

I have been at it just a few weeks and already I see what I have been missing . Buying an old site, often ten years or more, with links that are high quality from very respected sites gives you a shortcut of a year or more. You already have highly regarded links pointing to the sites you buy and the links you put on them to your main sites allow the juice to flow.

Not just that but they rank, and damn quick. In just over a week I already have re-purposed sites that rank and get traffic. For terms that would take a long time to rank for on a new site. It is a thing of beauty.

Let’s take a look at the approach.

This is how we worked previously in so far as setting up our networks for a niche but we now have the advantage of using sites that have authority. I would buy sites that fit your general niche in so far as keywords are concerned if possible but it is not vital. We know how effective links from aged sites are just by using Build My Rank. All the sites in that network are general sites sending links out to a myriad of other sites that have nothing in common yet the links from the network are still very effective at boosting our sites in the serps.

If we buy an aged domain and re-purpose it so that it has a site name that reflects our keywords and the content does the same then links from that site are going to be very powerful indeed.

Buy what you can afford, from PR2 to whatever your funds allow. The higher authority sites can be used to boost the lower authority sites.

What I mean is that if you buy 20 domains that have some age or good quality links already going to them you then interlink your whole network of 20 sites. They are all about something specific to your main general niches too. They may just be about a single product or a few products but the whole site is going to be used to send a link or two to your main site.

We will pick the highest authority sites and we will use a handful of them to send links to the lower authority sites that we have bought and set up. As discussed the link juice from the higher authority sites that have good authority links already can be used to flow that quality down to the lower quality sites. You are using your own group of sites to pass quality to build up the sites without having to spend so much time trying to find link from whatever sources you can.

The problem with most links that we are able to obtain is that they are simply not worth much. The links that most of us are able to obtain are, and we need to be honest, not of good quality and we go for bulk. Nothing wrong with this and it is certainly something that I shall continue to do.

But if we can own high quality sites then the links from them are worth so much more than most other links we can obtain from other places.

We get to own the property the links come from. It means that we can have high quality links on the homepage of a site and they will be there forever. Over a few months once the bots see that these link are going nowhere how do you think it will reflect on your main site and the other sites in your network that you have used the high quality of some site to improve the lower level sites. It is going to be golden.

Finding high quality links is the be all and end all of staying high in the serps long term. BMR works, no doubt and a lot of that is because initially the links are on the homepage of the sites in the network. But then they fall off and we keep on building. Most of them stick though and I have used it very effectively to rank a number of sites, although this approach is certainly not favored by many others. But where do you rank?

But we should try to split the work so that we also use such links to go to our support sites. It will mean less of them are needed as the sites already have inherent quality. I have seen it already on new sites I have built, in a matter of days. I buy one, set it up, and it ranks. With no links I have made apart from a few links from other higher authority links I have in my network. I did ten new sites last week and many are already getting a trickle of traffic and clicks.

Over time this will improve. Over time you will build them up to be larger sites in their own right, or you will leave them at a page or 2, depending on how they are ranked and how they are treated by the search engines.

But this is a closed system for your niche. You use the authority of the best to boost the worst and they all link out to your top level main site.

The juice flows.

I am not going in to the way to best approach buying the sites, Lando will be doing that when his work is done. But from a logical point of view you can see it makes sense. The same technique applies if you simply buy your own new domains and set up the same structure. It just takes longer is all.

But high quality links are worth a lot of money. I have sold links for $100 for a month on authority sites so buying a whole domain that is the same price and has high authority is going to make total sense. You own the site and the links for ever and that is a thing of beauty.

With your new set of sites that you have all interlinked and used to support your niche domination as a whole you are looking to be able to take on the big boys.

So many people try to compete in large and competitive niches with a single site and they don’t make it. But segment that niche and you could dominate. You have a series of interlinked sites that can all rank for certain terms that your main site simply may never be able to. A single post or series of posts on a general niche site is often simply not enough to take on a product or very competitive term.

But if you have a single site about the product then you can dominate it. By adding up all the sites you are then effectively taking over the main niche from a series of different angles. Tough to do with new sites, but more than possible with sites that are already very old and have great authority.

And with the authority of this network all pointing to the main site you may well find that you totally dominate the whole niche as well and get a series of sites on the front page of the search engine.

But never forget the money in the longtail. Many people simply strive for years to rank for a single term. Better would be a series of sites about the longtail. Each site can then rank relatively easy for the term as well as provide links to the man site to help rank too.

Online heroes like Grizz have been telling us that for years. And of late it is seen as more of a way to go. Forget the terms that attract evil competition and stay somewhat under the radar by attacking the longtail. A handful of longtails can often be more valuable than the main term anyway, and a lot easier to rank for and less likely to attract unwanted attention.

But either way, a series of sites to attack your terms is going to give you a lot more backup and a lot more authority.

It may seem like a lot of work and it is. Many will roll their eyes and feel sick to their stomach at the thought of building out a whole website just to get a link or two.

That is up to you.

It is where the money is. Good links that mean something.

We hear all the time about building exceptional quality content and the natural links will come. I don’t buy it and it is not true. For most niches it simply will not happen. You need to be active in doing your own work and getting your links. If you want search engine traffic that is. There are plenty of other free traffic sources you can go after, this is just one of many.

If you think this is wrong then fine. But large sites, and I mean the big names in any niche all do it. Do Amazon do it. Yes. They link to their network of smaller more niche sites and you will find that the big players all have a network of sites that are linked together.

And that is what we are going to do.

Within the sites in your network you need to pay special attention to you interlinking. By this I mean links on site pointing to other pages on the same sites. You should make the site as integrated as possible. It allows the internal juice to flow and the site boosts itself by being user friendly as far as navigation goes and gives it a lot more authority. Before you chase external links do all you can to give yourself internal links. What is going to be the most relevant link you can get?

A link from a site that is based on your keyword with relevant content.

And that starts at home. Use the authority of the site you have and link together content on it, it is about the best link you can get. And certainly a site built like this is what the search engines approve of and like above most everything else.

This is simple stuff at its heart. It is not complicated, it just takes an investment of time, and a little money. Or more money for buying yourself a short cut. Long term you are setting yourself up to dominate your chosen niche. You get the benefit of being able to mine new keywords as each site is always treated differently by the search engines. You allow yourself to get new terms to add to your satellite sites and your main site and you allow yourself to dominate your niche as your whole group of sites can simply take over page 1 for a multitude of terms. If you have been struggling to rank high for a main term then maybe you now see why. Maybe it is simply time to move away from Hubs and Squidoo etc and get serious about our own online content that we simply have complete control over?

If you are playing with the big boys then they are going to be doing a lot more than this simple technique so you better get busy. Most of us are not up for really tough niches, they are going to take too much effort and may result in wasted years. There are plenty of great niches that we can apply this article to, ones that are not saturated. Let me drive this point home to you. Yesterday afternoon I put a single page on one of my new aged domains. Yesterday afternoon. The site never used to be about what I have turned it in to. Today as I type this Wifey just informed me it made a sale. I made it yesterday!

Starting to make sense now?

And if you want to use this technique for adsense earnings then you are mental in the head and I shall send around the men in white coats to collect you. You are asking for your living to be taken away from you.

Lets simplify this.

We spend our life getting links to rank high. Each of those links is performing only once. It is going from website A to website B.

But if we have our own network we are simply multiplying the power of our links by a very large degree. If site A links to Site B and site B links to C, D, E and F then the boost that one site gets from a link is passed to the other sites too. The better authority a single site has the more authority a link it has gives. So by boosting our interlinked network with links from each other they all get boosted. And any backlink work we do externally to our network gets passed around and the whole network improves. And the whole network is linking up to our main site.

It simply means that we are getting a lot more from the work we do. A link is no longer simply performing once, it is boosting the site it links to which is sending some of that new authority to other sites in the network. And all sites are then sending out that better authority our main site.

Read Eli’s Serp Domination to see how much further this is taken by those who run in competitive niches.

If you are earning well from a niche then this is something you should seriously consider. I am not saying that what I have written is what needs to be done, but for long term stability then it is something you may like to consider.

 Posted by at 1:18 pm

  341 Responses to “Niche Domination II”

  1. Wow. Another excellent guide with tons of details!! Im gonna have to print this out and go over it a few times. It must of taken ages to write.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Aw, and I love a spy in panties too!

    I think it took longer to check the spelling than it did to write Aibal but I hope you enjoy it.

  2. Also, the effect it has on noobs coming in to try and take over your nice is priceless. Put on a nice theme and you can make them cry for mommy!

    Or better yet, when they mail you asking for a 3-way link exchange you can toy with them for quite a while until they realize that one guy owns 7 of the top 10. 😛

    Yes, I’m evil on Saturdays.

    Curse you for getting me all excited about Lando’s book.

    BTW, tried this with a leadgen site for a very new real estate agent. In the footer, I put in, X has sold apartments mentioned by the press: (and a bunch of newspaper logos and Oprah’s logo put in there.) Increased conversions even though X hasn’t been mentioned as someone who’s been talked of in the press.

    Tried something like that with your products?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Oh Wishal the things I could talk about when it comes to tips like that. Logos and a “certain” brand look are what keeps us earning more then the next guy.

    Some stuff is simply too good to share 😉

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Dave, Remember someone had a tip on putting an enlarge image text under images and having that as a link to their money page?

    I tested it by putting in a magnifying glass icon on all images that lead to the offer page. The page with the form has that image in a large size and I’ve different pages for each image. Then The signup page follows the Ogilvy format. Works like a charm. So thanks for the tip.

    We should really get together sometime and dish out conversions. I’m sure I’ll have a lot to pick up from a products man such as yourself.

    Branding signals seem like they’ll be big in 2011. And it all fits in nicely with your satellite site story.

    TIP FOR DAVE’S FAITHFUL You can sign up to HuffPo and add an article there. Then blast that with a 100 BMRs if you’re looking for link funnels outside of the usual Squidoo/HP.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Cool tip Dude, I didn’t know you could do that, I will check it out for sure.

    That was a good tip about the enlarge image, and branding is definitely very important. I don’t mean in the traditional sense though. I mean, someone comes to your site and the layout makes them feel comfortable that they are actually on the brands website.

    For single products it works like a charm and is an approach I am building on this year as I get down to business in a more professional and slightly less “nooblike” styley. Although I have a long way to go, I will be the first to admit.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Mike Reply:

    @Dave, I thought you would never dare put the words click to enlarge? 😛

    It’s been working great, I now also use it on huge review site. You’ve probably seen my site, I gave your back site a link lol

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Mike, I don’t put in click to enlarge at all. Instead, the image has a bolded/stylized caption. CTR is better and it is not spammy at all. People seem to love captions under images.

    Its a salespage within a salespage. Cue Inception theme song.

    The image has a white magnifying glass icon at the right lower corner dsiplayed quite prominently. Also, I don’t get paid for planting the cookie, but for a filled out form so there is that.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Mike Reply:

    @Wishal, Is click here to enlarge spammy? lol. Seriously, is it? I’m gonna remove it if it is considered spam. It was just something stupid I thought I’d try, and surprisingly worked.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Is it enlarging when they click? But, yeah, it is spammy 😉 Try just the small image on its own, maybe peeps will click to enlarge anyway and they go straight to the product.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:

    Dave, how do you put several small product images in a row below the post? I guess you need some plugin to make a table where to paste thumbnails, right?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    If you mean like related posts but with images then you have nrelate, related posts slider and a few others. Well worth doing on product sites. They are just plugins that do it automatically.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:


    Thanks, that’s a good idea for automatic solution.
    I am still looking for a way to manually insert 2-4 product thumbnails side-by-side below the post. So that I can have full control over what products appear there and where the links go (other posts or directly Amazon). I am still a control freak 🙂

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Mike Reply:


    I use a pic smaller than that found on amazon, so yes, it does enlarge when they click. It doesn’t enlarge it on my page though, but I didn’t say it would enlarge here lol

    dammit now I have to change dozens of pictures 😛

    Is ” Click to view more photos” spammy? I did not consider that spammy at all since it did what it said..

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I am just messing, no different to saying click to read reviews is it? I do that all the time.

    I have come to the conclusion in this game that you have to just do what you feel comfortable with. If the consequences are bad then you know deep down why, so go with what would really piss you off if you got banned from a program for but know that really it was not surprising.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Not me, I am squeaky clean!

    Thanks for the link Mike, always appreciated.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @Wishal, I don’t see where I can add an article to the Huffington Post. I signed up but it looks like all I can do is comment. Any more tips?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Seth, There used to be this link saying If you have something to say. Can’t find it myself now. It was before the pre-AOL acquisition. Another sure route is by becoming a top commentator – that still works.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    The people who will get most value from “Automatic Authority” is anyone who has never bought an aged domain before, or anyone who has but been burned.

    I got massive value out of Backlinks Hydra (http://backlinks-hydra.com/ – the video at the bottom of the page is great!) You bought it too, right? The due diligence checks that Terry introduced me to were golden. But I was sure there had to be a better way to find domains rather than going through domain brokers as he suggested. Through trial and error I now have a great system for finding quality domains that I want. The real beauty for me was that after I told Dave HOW TO BUY domains, he pointed me towards Eli’s post and talked about HOW TO USE aged domains. Initially I was thinking along Backlinks Hydra lines of using them just for backlinks. But Dave got me into the Niche Domination ii tactic of backinks AND money!

    Anyone can do this! It still requires massive action on your part. More sites to build & more sites to backlink. The beauty of “Instant Authority” is that it is a blueprint for getting sites ranking ASAP. It’s still up to you to pick your niche and monetize your site effectively though.

    “Automatic Authority” + Niche Domination ii = Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiit!

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, Yes Siree. I love that book. It probably is the most comprehensive book on link building out there at least as far as scope of technique is concerned.

    And you guys really are on to something. Come to think of it a bunch of big agencies have been doing it the same way. So have I without even realizing. Look @ AOL blogs.

    You have your core sites, and then you have the rest. Wonderful stuff. You remember that old link silo diagram that became all the rage a year or 2 back? My best linked up sites are laid out like that except I have different sites instead of pages.

    It went something like this:

    Exited for your first(?) IM launch. Looking forward to your über streamlined method.
    Whatcha gonna price it at?
    Can I get a review copy please?
    Kidding. I wonder if WF/wicked fire/dp are still like that!

    Have you been able to quantify the extra work that you need to do to ensure the domain keeps its juice and doesn’t get the gReset penalty?

    I just build more links (lately BMRs) to wherever the site is getting links from and throw out a PR release or 2. Works most of the time but does bomb on occasion.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    The price is still under wraps for now.

    Maybe I’ve just been lucky. I’ve only had one domain drop in PR. From PR2 to PR1. Everything else has stood firm since I took ownership. The majority of the domains I purchased have been this year so I am quite excited to see what will happen at the next PR update.

    What I love about these domains is that you can hit them hard with backlinks from day one and they just suck them up.

    re: review copies – Not sure what I’m going to do. But the fact that you were the first to ask has been noted 🙂

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Darrell Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Hey Lando

    I will take a review copy when you launch your ebook if its available. I do want to buy some aged domains in the future, but I literally don’t understand the process. Please make sure you have a step by step method outline on what to do. For example: once your pay the person, what is the actual process? Do, I need to send my register comany like Godaddy something or does the person selling the site, need to give me some additional information?


    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, I own only 1 very old authority domain and I can say that it can definitely work.

    However, I’m sure there’s more to learn.

    So sign up me for a review copy as well.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Shaun L Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,
    Yep, if you’re offering review copies i’m down for receiving one too 😀

    I’ll actually go through the process and give an honest review on here / Warrior forums / Digital Point as well, i’m not one of those people who get a product and don’t take action / don’t review as promised. If you’re up for that get Dave to send you my email. Thanks a lot.

  3. I now have Facebook pages for 5 of my good money websites (thanks to prodding from you and others). Social validation you know.

    Now you are going to make me start buying aged domains? Holy cow, I gotta stop reading.

    Putting up satellite sites is great but how do you have time for the content? I guess you outsource that? My day is filled writing all my own stuff as I have been for almost 4 years now.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    The FB stuff was worth it just for visitor peace of mind, don’t you think?

    As far as I see it the satellite sites are just a part of the day. Once they are built then they are thee for a lifetime Seth. If it takes a few weeks or even months out of forever then it is no biggie.

    My biggest regret is not doing it sooner and only doing it on a small scale a year or so ago. If we just decide now that the next month or so will be building them then they are there to help us dominate our niche for the rest of our lives, which is hopefully a very long time. What’s a few months then?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Forgot, I am getting my outsourcer to write 1 very well researched post that will take her a day to put on some of the satellite sites. Depending on if I feel they warrant it. Then I will write the shorter product posts myself.

    Get yourself a worker Seth, it makes a very big difference. There is still plenty to do, it just allows you to scale up quicker.

  4. Where did you find a quality person to outsource to Dave? I have hired a few writers and they all ended up sucking. 🙁 Didn’t do the work, or didn’t do it in a timely manner etc… and then the writing itself ~ even though I looked at samples ~ it was almost like they had someone else write the samples. lol.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    We use onlinejobs.ph, we waded through a few trials but ended up with 2 great gals. Very efficient and always deliver on time. Just trial a few and you should find someone good. But you also get what you pay for to some extent too.

  5. Great article. I read Eli’s post on this ages ago and always had it in the back of my mind. Finally started buying and aging some satellite domains late last year.

    Not sure about your comment on Adsense though. Or do you mean interlinking Adsense sites on the same account could jeapordize your account?

    Other than that I don’t see any reason not to use this for Adsense, assuming you’re going after kws that are worth it.

    Btw do you ever calulcate your ecpm on your best amazon or other product based niches?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It is a classic article. My only problem is that I can’t actually understand a lot of Eli’s stuff, which is a shame!

    What I meant by adsense is that if you have too many sites on one account you run a very serious risk of a manual inspection and that can mean a de-indexing of all sites on that account. Not worth it if you ask me. For adsense I would put it on a handful of sites only, and good ones too.

    But that is personal opinion and my days of chasing adsense money are long over. If people are paying for ads then I would try to earn more by getting commission for the product. But, as always, just how I like to play this game.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @Dave, Hi Dave, thanks for the clarification. Agree on having too many accounts. I’ve just made a PLC here in order to create a second account for my smaller sites but will keep my main account tidy with only a few of the decent earners.

    Know what you mean about the commercial interest involved if people are paying for ads. In one of the main niches I’m in there are a good amount of CPA offers so that’s another avenue.

    Eventually once the sites build more I might try contacting companies directly.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    I’m interested in the eCPM of your sites too if that is possible. I think adsense is a great way to monetize but that’s me.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Ryan T,

    Honestly? For most stuff I just get on with it. Good is a sale for 1 in 4 visitors, bad is 1 in 200 if I am lucky, but commission rates vary and so do price tags.

    Bottom line I just get ion with it, if I make regular sales in a niche without too much work being involved then I build it up, if not I leave it and move on.

  6. Eli is what got me started before griz. Learned how to make link launderers 😀 Which still work, and rank after panda.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    He has a quality site, no doubt about it, just can’t wrap my head around his technical approach a lot of the time.

  7. Great post as usual, one more question. All other aged domain use different ip right?
    Btw, I must use proxy for reading your post or I’ll get “The server at http://www.makingmoneyontheinternetfree.info is taking too long to respond.”

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @alam, DNS issue. Your end. Should clear out in a day or 2.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I am of the firm opinion that the need for different ips is totally overrated. This is from experience. But, I still host on multiple accounts and reseller too, mainly to keep from a whole network going down if there is a problem with hosting.

    But, a few sites on the same ip linking to each other is not a problem as far as my testing is concerned.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Carrie Reply:


    I was gonna ask you this, very good to know. I have a site that is sandboxed and I would love to link to it from an older site in the same niche but since I just have shared hosting I have been worried. I think I might just go for it.

    I do want to get a reseller account someday, I just don’t want to go through the hassle of moving my sites right now.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I honestly think that every site on a different ip is totally overrated. I have improved sites with 4 or 5 links from different sites all on the same ip, so I know it works. I wouldn’t be silly about it but in reason I don’t see a problem.

    Many will say different but if it is done in moderation then it is not a problem. If you linked 20 sites together on the same ip that may be a different matter as it would look very fishy. Take a look at this http://backlinkreviews.org/seo-hosting/

    It isn’t as easy as it first seems to actually really get unique ips anyway and for it to count. Even most reseller accounts use the same nameservers and seo hosting is expensive.

  8. What an amazing post, I am newly inspired.

    Yes you’re right about too many links via bmr to a new site. I did that for spanxformen.com and google took away the ranking on that term, but I still get searches on the site for varied long tail and other terms.

    Now I’d better examine flippant and just dropped.com for more sites.

    Do you post your income online? forgive me if I’ve already asked, but I like to know exact numbers.

    Peace and blessings and fish and chips and love actually and Colin firth and all that other stuff across the pond, Paula

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Paula Neal mooney, $32,781.55 😛
    That Dave is well in the double digit thousands is all we know.

    Check out Paula & Wanda if you like exact numbers.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Paula Neal mooney,

    New sites can seriously suffer from too many links, especially high PR links which is what BMR links are initially. Slow and steady and all that.

    No income figures from me Paula, I could prove any amount so it is pointless. Plus it will disappoint some and amaze others so there is no point. We do well, and are happy with it is all I will say. Money for food is the most important, the rest is just bonus for a house in every country 😉

    You can keep the rest but I will take the fish and chips, yum!

    But peace back at ya Paula, that is all that I want and I wish it on everyone.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Dave, “I could prove any amount”
    That my friends, is why Dave izz Da SupaMan!
    The man can make numbers come true. Like friggin David Blane.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Wishal, Forget the edit button, you need to do a breathalyzer test before you let folk like me comment. 😛

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Bruce Reply:


    How quick is to quick on the BMR links? I started an a’la Paula & Wanda review page on a 2 year old, but kinda derelict site, got BMR (thru you even!!) & have put 6-8 posts a day for the last 30 days now, but have seen bugger all shift in rankings, and no traffic to speak of.

    Either my expectations are a bit high or maybe 6-8 a day is to much to quick?

    Can you define “slow & steady” with some ranges?

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It really is a tough call. I always start out my linking slow and random though. Maybe a couple a day for a few days then none for a few then 4 or 5 for a couple of days then rest again. 6-8 a day on a new linking campaign for 30 days may be too much so try easing off for a month and see what happens.

  9. Thanks Dave for another great post. I have been thinking a lot lately about the long term. I have got a plan that I am going to start following, I have been giving it some thought while the kids are off school and I can’t get so much done.

    Your new strategy is similar to what I have been thinking of, but not with aged domains. I can see how much of a boost this would give. Will hopefully build up to this when I am earning more.

    I find the hardest thing is trying to get my head around how it all fits together. And knowing where to start.

    Luckily my sites have been given a boost by the new algo changes. I am now in the top fifty (instead of the 600’s)!! This is with my two sites that disappeared 6 months ago. I could not shift them with backlinks, so this gives me some hope that they will respond to added links now. My main site has held it’s own luckily, just not making sales, weird, same traffic going to Amazon for the same products, just not buying this month.

    But this recent google shuffle has been a bit of a wake up call that no one is safe from these changes. Even if you do everything “right” there are no guarantees.

    So thanks for sharing this with us, it’s very kind, and gives me something to think on, and plan for.

  10. I’m also curious how many hosting accounts you would recommend for this type of strategy… and how much you spread these sites out across different hosting.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I would get reseller hosting as well as a number of other hosting accounts too. Whatever you can afford to have.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    Doesn’t reseller hosting has the same IP on each account (or are they different?) and even the same nameserver?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Ryan T,

    It has mixed ips but the nameservers are often the same. But unless you are using different addresses with the registrar then you leave a footprint at some level anyway. It can get overly complicated if you let it.

    If you are like Terry and have 60 or more satellites then you go all out for diversity, for a smaller series of satellites then just work within reason.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Jackie, Check out http://www.seohosting.com as well. They’re HostGator’s multi-C-class IP division.

  11. Hi Dave – great post and I have to say you got my attention with talk of finding those aged domains that have high PR backlinks ready to go.

    As a serial aged domain buyer myself, I’ve found plenty of gems myself over the years, but it’s mostly been hit or miss by going through freshdrop or dropaday and getting lucky at Godaddy closeouts or getting into a dogfight in the auctions. But I’ve also bought some total lemons.

    I have one old site that was previously used as a college info site and it has a bunch of .gov links (one from a PR5 page) and .edu links pointing at it. I’ve had it over a year, backlinked it myself and backlinked the .gov and .edu pages. It ranks for a few long tails but has never been given any PR from all that high octane juice that’s flowing into it! I should be sitting on a super authority site, but its just a PR0 plonker!

    And as for the sheer number of satellites I’ve built around my weight loss mega-site – all I can say is anyone wanting get into THAT niche needs their damn fool head examined!

    It currently stands at over 60 self-hosted domains and growing, plus hundreds (and I do mean hundreds) of free blogs/web 2.0 properties etc then another brace of guest posts, forum profiles and posts and anywhere else I can cadge links from. And those satellites are all sandblasted hard with BMR et al. I shudder to think how many words/articles I’ve pumped into that network. Not for the faint hearted!

    I know you can buy ready to go sites with existing PR and good in-links on flippa and places like that, but they get a bit pricey especially if the owner knows what they’re really worth from an SEO standpoint. I’d be very interested to know if there’s a better way to sniff out aged domains/dead websites with authority backlinks that don’t cost an arm and a leg.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Putting me to shame there Terry with your work ethic. That is a ton of sites and work to have done.

    People don’t realize what is involved in this game and would probably never start if they did 😉

    With these aged sites it is always going to be hit and miss to some degree. Just as with normal sites. Some will do well and some will tank, as you know.

    Hopefully Lando’s guide will give you some new tips, but you sound like you are in the know already and have a lot of experience.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    “I’d be very interested to know if there’s a better way to sniff out aged domains/dead websites with authority backlinks that don’t cost an arm and a leg.”

    It really depends what you think of as expensive. Not that I like dropping $200 on a domain at auction, but that only buys me about 150 BMR articles. The cost/benefit analysis in my head tells me I’d much rather have a quality domain than the articles. Even though prices for domains at auction are still rising, they still offer good value.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, For a bare domain that I’m taking a chance on, no matter what the backlink analysis says, I don’t like to get pushed to the $200+ area either, not unless there is serious usage in having both a relevant KW in the domain name and very solid external links. Sometimes its worth the risk, sometimes not.

    As the price goes up above that, its sometimes a safer bet to go for an existing, up and running website that’s being sold someplace.

    The reason I say that is, and here’s some info for anyone new to this:

    An existing, live site will have ready-indexed content and hopefully some PR on internal pages as well as having a decent homepage PR. But more importantly, it will NOT have been flagged as an expired or expiring domain.

    Google knows all – believe it!

    They know when someone buys up an expired domain and often, although not always by some quirk, they pull the authority that was built up previous to the latest “owner” taking possession of the domain. The domain often loses its page rank and along with it, all the authority it once had. Sometimes it comes back but more often than not is does not.

    When you buy a live site, the domain is not near to expiry. Google knows the difference in that it understands you’re buying a functioning website. So the authority and PR is passed on to the new owner.

    To clear another thing up:

    Anyone who has been following the Griz school of SEO will know that page rank is not a deciding factor in SERPs rank, so will be wondering why the hell am I even talking about page rank when buying aged domains/flipped websites? Here’s why:

    Page rank is not a measure of SERP ranking, that much is true. But it IS a measure of a website’s perceived authority by Google. When all things are equal, a link from a relevant site that is PR5 will seriously beat out a link from a relevant site that is PR1. If you can get that link on an internal page that also has good page rank, the juice is really high octane.

    Only problem with buying ready-to-go websites with useful PR (PR4 and above) is they can fetch silly money. I’m talking in the $thousands for even a PR5, even if there’s no proof of income. You can get lucky and find the odd PR4 that has an asking price of a few hundred dollars, but they are rare and getting rarer.

    So there’s the two sides of buying authority for your satellite network that I know about and use. I’ve been lucky and I’ve been unlucky and I hate it when its “expensive” unlucky LOL. Of course its sweet when a gem comes along that’s a bargain.

    Lando, I’m guessing I’m not revealing any of what you’re putting in your book here. Apologies if I am, but I’m sure most of that is fairly common knowledge. Which is why I’m hoping you’re book is going to surprise me with some really good stuff that I don’t know about 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    You can read a bit more about what Automatic Authority is about here: http://www.dockingbay94.info/ I can’t say for sure whether it will have much you don’t already know. It’s primarily aimed at guys (and gals) who like the thought of getting hold of some authority sites but don’t know where to get started. Then walks you through the process of finding, analysing and purchasing aged (high PR) domains.

    Incidentally, I’m starting another project that may be of collaborative interest to you. I’ve got sites in a similar but non-competing niche as you. It’s still in the planning stage but if you shoot me a mail, lando@ I’ll send you the details.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, email on its way…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bern Reply:


    Nice Tery – As Roy Castle used to say….Dedication’s what you need 🙂

    Those support sites can add some serious bank to the bottom line.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Bern, Dedication is only part of it. The rest is sheer, dogged, unwavering, stubborn persistence!!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @Terry, hi Terry, how many hosts are those 60 domains on, how do you feel about the whole unique IP debate? I currently have an account on seohost.org but had lots of problems with them so looking to go elsewhere.

    But I’m almost thinking of just having separate accounts on lots of cheap hosts instead of all under one.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Jesse,Those 60 domains are just for my weight loss network of sites. I have many more domains with sites on them in other niches.

    I use a HostNine reseller for their big selection of different C class IPs (over 20), a Hostgator reseller that I’ve had for a few years with no problems, plus a VPS with a few IPs (private nameservers) for my big sites. I also have several satellite sites out on some other people’s resellers in reciprocal one-for-one site deals to increase the spread of IPs plus.

    I also have a few sites hosted on free hosts, which are pretty crappy but I never put a wordpress site on that kind of host, only ever static sites. That’s so if anything goes bad with the host, I can yank the sites off and put them somewhere else fast without the hassle of trying to get them to release a database (it has happened to enough people I know). Dreamhost were one of the bad guys for that, so if you use them, don’t put any blogs on there that use a database driven CMS (wordpress etc).

    I personally feel that its best to keep things as spread out as possible. Its ok to have a few links coming in to your main money site from each different C class IP, so the spread doesn’t have to be so wide, but the wider you can go, the better.

    The whole idea is to make it look like you don’t own the sites you are getting links from. Mine have different themes and layouts although with so many sites, its hard to make them each unique, so there is some overlap in design.

    You have to keep an eye on costs because lots of small, cheap hosts can still add up to a lot each month.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Man, how do you cope?

    What are you doing about the actual domain registration? Using different peeps to register them? Or is there a limit to it?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, Nah, Godaddy for everything. You can go too far with the paranoia… and remember, Google is also a registrar. So if they really wanted to sus out your empire, they could do it – private registration or not. I just try not to give them a reason to go looking, like not having adsense on any of them.

    Anyway. Godaddy’s easy and they have some good coupons – saves me a fortune when it comes time to renew domains!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Glad to hear, I was starting to get paranoid, we have the same registrar details on our domains, but have private whois. But I know that G can see the registrar details if they really want to. But hey, I am guessing we are very small fish in the scheme of things.

    I hate godaddy though for renewing, I transfer some out to internetbs.net, cheap and no bells and whistles.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Chris Hunter Reply:

    @Terry, do you not put Google Analytics on those sites as well?

    I’m looking at creating my own blog network and was considering the private registration for my sites, but since Google is a registrar, it doesn’t make any sense for me to pay extra for that.

    I was told that GoDaddy does include free private registration if you buy several domains in bulk though, so I may get it if it comes for free…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Chris Hunter,

    Sod Google, think about your competitor checking your link profile and they see a network of 10 or 20 sites all registered to you. If they report you to G for spamming and link manipulation and they actually look in to it then……….

    Pay the extra if you are going to make a network, deffo.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Chris Hunter, Dave is spot on – you need to be more worried about competition sussing out your network than Google.

    Also, no I don’t use analytics. I di use statcounter, which is free, easy and difficult to trace back to any one webmaster.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @Terry, Hi Terry thanks for that, sounds like a good plan. Yes I almost went with Dreamhost but something about it put me off so cancelled.

    I’m having a similar issue with HostSeo.org as their servers keep timing out with 500 server errors when I try to backup my files, going to be a nitemare to pull them all off.

    Thanks for the recommendations, will look those up.

  12. I think that just puts me to shame. So many backlinks…

    Just wondering – what period is that over? How many sites is that over, and how many niches is that over? Because that volume is just scaring me lol want to put it in context 🙂

    You’re an inspiration Dave.

    And can’t wait to learn about aged domains.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It is over a fair number of sites, not sure how many but a good number. Plus real blasts to things like Hubs etc that can take the weight. Well, did until the new algo. It is well under a year for BMR and prob about a year for Postrunner although don’t quote me on that.

    And thanks for the kind words Sam, it’s appreciated.

  13. Very nice Dave

    Back in 2007/08 it was build , link and hope something would happen 🙂

    It took us well over a year of building our own sites and third party sites (some still earn to this day) before we started to think more strategically and building a cohesive network of our own support sites.

    But we needed to go through that learning phase to get down the basics and make mistakes.

    You also hit the proverbial nail on the head when you said you need to evolve…A lot the old stuff still works great but you need to move with the times and adapt.

    I also would not risk everything by relying on only one site.

    I will be interested to read the aged domains info – we purchase domains, but more for the name itself rather than age.

    Keep it coming Gangsta Boy & Girl (wifey)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yeah, I am definitely a little behind, just getting out of “noob” phase really. It should make for an interesting year. My main objective is a few new niches and to stop sending so many links to my main sites, I want to filter it through more and rank a large number of new sites.

    The aged domain route seems like a very quick shortcut to that. I know that having satellite sites can boost your main site, as I have done it, and they earn a bit too, time to step it up.

  14. I’m nervous about buying pre-owned domains because I always wonder why on earth they are being sold. Did they get deindexed, is there some bad history, or is the owner just naive? How do you check if someone is offloading because they’ve acquired a manual penalty? Wayback machine doesn’t give you info like that, you just see the content.

    BTW, I read that post by that Eli (bluehatseo) – wow, is all I can say. There’s tons of really useful stuff on his site – if only I had discovered him in 2007!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Eli’s site is amazing, if you can understand it that is, most of it goes over my head.

    We are not talking about buying sites that are put up for sale by the owners. They are sites that are put up by the registrar as the owner has not renewed the domain name. You will be amazed what people let go of.

    Most are simply sites that were not set up to make money or the owner failed to earn and let them go. You either bid or buy them and then change the site. New site title and new content. They get indexed quick if they have good links to them and you use that authority to rank very quickly.

    Lando will explain all in his course, it is easy to find out about sites history to see what you may be buying.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    Any idea when its coming out? the ebook.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Ryan T,

    A month or less unless Lando falls under the pressure.

  15. I haven’t read this post yet but it looks nice so I will later on.

    I have an unrelated matter I want to bring up, based on a discussion in the comments below Dave’s previous post.

    Somebody mentioned that having too many outgoing Amazon links can screw up your rankings.

    I myself have taken up the habit of writing these 600-900 word beasts that feature 2 text links to Amazon and 4 images, which I also link to Amazon.

    Image links look more harmless, because they don’t really make a post look spammy like text links do.

    A total of 6 links in a 600-900 word post is still a lot. I’m wondering if maybe this is keeping my rankings down.

    Can anybody comment on this before I go back and change up all my posts?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    To be honest I am not sure. But I do know that 2 sites I lost were by far my heaviest in terms of overall Amazon links. I may take some off to see, but will wait a month or two first.

    I am now trying to do a more even split, half content with Amazon links, half with just external links to authority sites. So far so good but time will tell. But I do know that a small 5 page site I just did that had an outsourced 3000 word article with 10 outbound links in it and a few posts with an Amazon links is set to do very well, something to think about. My gut feeling is that the times they are a changing and straight affiliate sites need more content with no aff links in, but it doesn’t seem to be the overall way the serps are showing as yet but it is getting there.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I’m currently experimenting with a site that’s got 1 money link even though it has 22 posts.

    It gets traffic like mad.

    Gotta build it big and THEN start thinking about monetization.

    Now that I’m bringing up stuff that’s not directly related to this post…

    I’ve read that Paula & Wanda stuff and they’re saying build 5 money pages and then backlink’em until they rank and then move on.

    They’re explaining how to use WP in the same book, so I’m assuming they expect you to build money pages on your own property.

    But we all know new sites can’t have their pages ranked fast. Certainly not with link blasting.

    That’s why I’m planning on putting 50 pages of 600-900 word posts on my sites over the course of a few months.

    Then, when they’re doing some longtails… THEN maybe I’ll see if I can rank individual pages for their keywords.

    Did I miss something from Paula & Wanda?

    Feedback welcome.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Isobel Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Paula and Wanda’s backlinks come from guest posting and offering articles directly to other websites (James Martell’s PAD system), I don’t think they do link blasting at all.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Isobel, Good point. That’s probably the explanation.

    They get less links that have higher quality.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Isobel, Btw… what’s James’ PAD system?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    Professional Article Distribution

    It means you do guest post.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Ryan T, If it works so much better, then why are we doing mass backlinking schemes?

    I’m gonna get down with guest posts pretty soon myself. This I gotta see for myself.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Blackthorne, It is time consuming to find PAD partners and the need to write genuine, helpful content for the guest post can be a roadblock. Also you could spend an entire day and only manage to get one link request approved.

    However, the biggest challenges are having a site that your average blogger will feel comfy linking to (facotrs: your content, positioning, monetization, brand) as well as being able to scale this system rapidly once you start seeing results.

    It is the best way to get build up an authority site IMHO. Of course, expect to develop the site out without putting up AdSense or Aff. links for 6-12 months.

    This strategy will give you the best results if you develop a website in a niche that you know is going to convert aces.

    As to why we are all fans of mass-backlinking schemes, the reason behind it wouldn’t be laziness or some other B.S but because the truth is that the more valuable the link, the harder it is to get. Link building corollary implies that the link that is harder to get will be more valuable.

    Services and satellite sites help you get the most bang for your buck in a very short time. It is vital when testing a niche but shouldn’t be the only thing that you do for an authority site.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Wishal, Thanks Wishal.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Blackthorne, http://www.seomoz.org/blog/white-hat-seo-it-fing-works-12421 :: You’ll like it!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Wishal, Will you give me something goody every time I say thanks? 🙂

    Thanks again!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Good point, there is a big difference. They don’t get involved in our murky world as far as I can tell.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    It gets traffic like mad because you only have one outbound aff link?

    Doesn’t make sense lol

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Ryan T, Nothing makes sense in the wondrous world of IM/MMO/SEO.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bern Reply:


    We learnt a year or two ago that our sites performed a lot better by inititially only adding unique content and slowly building base layers of links / more content.

    When we used to hammer sites from the off with aff links and external links, they always took longer to rank. Coincidence? Maybe, but it was enough for us to change the way we start new sites.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Bern, Mirrors what I’ve seen.
    Now I just get private links from all the affs whenever possible.

    I’ve linked to this one before, and I’ll do it again: http://www.hobo-web.co.uk/topic/affiliate-seo/

    What has your experience been with cloaking links Bern?
    I’ve been meaning to get something elaborate set up, but April’s a lazy month.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bern Reply:


    We use a simple php redirect to make the links look ‘pretty’. We don’t cloak them to hide from big G though if that’s what you mean.

    As we have converted most of our sites to wordpress, we may invest in a plugin that cloaks and tracks licks etc.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sometimes you can get lucky, it depends how hard the niche is or sometime the Gods simply look down on you with sympathy and give you rankings from the get go.

    But your approach sounds good, lots of content and let it sit for a while.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Isobel Reply:

    @Dave, Andy Williams posted about this topic last week. He found the same thing, that his sites with a lot of Amazon links were the ones that went down – even where the content was original.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yeah, I may take off a ton of links soon, I am just keeping my fingers crossed first.

  16. sorry to crash the post but I know I have read it on here somewhere, can someone show me a link to “grizzly” blog. I can’t find it in google search. Thanks.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:



    Is his slightly resurrected one. He also has his archived blogger one to, can’t remember the link though.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, internetmarketinglessons.ca

    Vote -1 Vote +1Youssef Reply:


    You maybe also interested in: http://grizzlybrears.com/

    Vote -1 Vote +1Mark Reply:

    Thanks guys will have a look, must be pretty good the way you guys talk about it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Mark, Naw… kinda sucks actually. Stick with Dave. 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Ooh, going all modest? Still haven’t forgiven you for Facebook by the way! I kinda like it, which is even worse.

  17. Hey Dave, I have a question.

    Does BMR do anything for you now?

    I have come to the conclusion that it is absolutely useless. I have hit pages with hundreds of links from it and if I’m lucky nothing will happen. At worst, the page will die a horrible death.

    It doesn’t matter how many links the page already has, what website it’s on, or how old the site is, BMR doesn’t do anything helpful.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Still working for me, and great. But it won’t work so well without links from other places. Hundreds of 150 word articles linking to a post is not natural, mix it up, and also make sure you mix up the categories you put your articles in too.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:

    Dave, what is your blueprint of using BMRs and other links to promote Squidoo? Do you dripfeed 1-2 BMRs per day for x days and then increase the quantities?

    Here is my approach. Which gives me [dissapointing] top of the page 2 results.
    – publish Squidoo lens
    – let it sit for a week or two while other lenses have been promoted
    – maybe make 10-40 manual forum profile links
    – publish 5 BMRs per day twice a week till 25-30 BMRs are pointing to this lens.
    – stop building links to this lens and move on

    — I use 3-4 BMR categories
    — I mix up anchor text. I use [product name] in 50-60% of BMRs and add also [product name and category], [buy product name], [buy product name and category].
    — I throw in unrelated anchor text every in every 10th or 15th post
    — I mix up location of link within the BMR blog post
    — all BMR posts are in 150-170 word range
    — Squidoo lenses are properly keyword optimized

    Last week I started experimenting with sending couple of hundreds of profile links per week to 2 lenses using Sick Submitter. Now both have dropped out of first 100 pages of Google results. Which is no worse than sitting on page 2. Let’s see {when|if} they will be back.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I think you need to mix up more un-optimized backlinks now, vary them more and see how that goes. I would also start making some of the posts longer, as in the forum link you provided.

    But currently it seems everything is up in the air a little so it is hard to really tell what will happen in terms of rankings in a month or two. We shall see.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:


    Thank you!

    Vote -1 Vote +1JohnM Reply:


    Do you use BMR only for 150 word articles or do you also send BMR 300+ word articles too. I have been sending my 300 word articles to postrunner.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Mostly short ones but I mix it up now and then with longer articles and put 2 links in them. All adds to the variety and less of an obvious footprint.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:


    Here is an interesting discussion about BMRs:

    I have used BMRs for hubs and squids. Hubs are still nowhere close to page 1, even these who got 30+ BMRs plus profile links. Squids are getting mixed results. Some page 1 rankings (mostly lenses about toys – useless because nobody buys toys in spring) and lots of top-of-page-2 rankings. I am now experimenting with mixing up anchors and adding hundreds of profile links to give BMR another chance before canceling.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I am officially never writing another Hub or Squid again. After Hubpages idiocy this morning they can shove it as far as I am concerned.

    Interesting read though J, thanks.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:


    Did I miss some news from Hubpages or it personal between them and you?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    They deleted a Hub. Apparently it had too many outbound links in it. i.e 2!

    The content was over 2000 words and rather than just allow you to make changes they take it out and then after you make changes it gets reviewed then goes live again. Not exactly brilliant for a stable ranking.

    Plus is has been live for over a year so it is just stupid.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:


    That sucks. I sniffed around a bit yesterday and noticed that this one of your hubs has gone AWOL. Hopefully they just unpublished it instead of deleting.

    Looks like Hubpages are in panic mode now. Did you see their CEO posting in G.Webmaster forum and complaining about the situation? I mean – is it so bad that Google is not communicating with HP on top management level?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It is back but it is ridiculous if they think stuff like that is going to help them get in to G’s good books. Deleting then un-deleting urls is not very seo friendly, they don’t seem to know what they are doing. I am done with them.

    I can’t believe that guy moaning, maybe if they weren’t just along for a cash Cow ride early on they could have been like Infobarrel and actually vetted content before it went live. Who lets people they don’t know post live content on to their website and not expect to have repercussions at some point?

    Poor them. Welcome to the world of the search engine.

    Ooh, I am sounding grumpy today, big smile instead. 8)

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Josh, Trying to force quick rankings is hard enough as it is (it certainly doesn’t work for Squidoo anymore). That’s why I add lots of content and spread my BMR links to my site really thin.

    Some posts manage to get to SERP1 like that. But I wouldn’t try to make those posts rank higher with 100 BMRs or anything like that. It doesn’t work that way.

    The less-greedy approach works best:

    Lots of on site content + Very few backlinks to each page = Nice longtail traffic

    Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:


    I’m not in it so much for the “greed” and ranking quickly, I would kind of just like to know what works period. I don’t do any SEO work anymore, but I have a writer who is putting out 5500 words a day and I have no idea what to tell him to do anymore.

    Some of you make this sound so easy(you just throw up a squid and send it 30 links and BAM!)-but that isn’t my experience at all.

    I can no longer get anything to rank for any keyword no matter how low of competition.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Buy an aged domain, even with little page rank. You can pick up a PR2 for then bucks or less and turn it in to anything you want. I have been getting odd sales from some of my new site that just have 1 post on and no links yet, or just a few postrunners.

    Frankly Josh I think you are right and the days of Web 2.0 are coming to an end. Just do your own sites and build up a nice network around them. From what I can tell recently from our new approach is that we need to drastically cut down the number of aff links on sites.

    We are now going for proper good researched content, by our outsourcers, of 2-3000 words for a main post and then linking to shorter but still big aff posts with minimal aff links. Seems like this is the way we need to play now.

    Things are definitely changing and I don’t think that straight up aff sites or sites geared just to earn from aff sales or adsense, i.e Squidoo and Hubpages are going to be worth as much in the future.

    But hey, I could be wrong, but long term I think we need to change approach, and I am, have begun to do so to look more to the future.

    Large networks of backup sites where links have value from proper relevant sites I own and will stay there long term.

    We are now at the stage where we will spend money and buy a domain and put up a full site on it just to have a permanent home page link. It may be overkill but I think it is the way forward.

    It goes against much advice I have given in the past but what worked then may not work so well now or in the future.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Stephen Reply:

    @Dave, Given what you’ve said, do you still think it makes sense to use Squidoo and Hubpages to test out niches prior to building a site? Or perhaps it’s better to buy an aged PR2 domain, set it up to focus on the general sock niche. Then you can test out all the different sub niches like white socks. If nothing else you’ll have an asset that you own and control. They may still end up being worth more than a bunch of hubpages which, as you already know, can get removed without warning.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You said it all Dude. I have said recently that I am done building any more Web 2.0 properties. They are not doing like they were so it is time to move on. I still backlink a couple but basically it is over for me.

    Like you say, from buying a PR2 expired domain for 5.10 bucks I just don’t see the point now, they will rank just as well, you get to optimize the layout to makes sales plus you get a link you know is on the homepage and ain’t going anywhere.

    I may not be the fastest to move with the time but I get there in the end 😉

    The effort involved in Hubs etc may as well now be spent on our own stuff, we keep all the money.

  18. Thank God I found Dave…… wait a minute did I say “God”…. that should be “Grizzly”.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Why thank you 😉

  19. hey Dave, and everyone!
    I’m in a dilemma right now: have done everything like you said here and there, selected a niche with wordtracker like you suggested which it says there’re 570 searches for my keyword. the keyword is something like ‘large cotton socks’, my domain is largecottonsocks*com and I’m now on the second, third and fourth places for this keyword in G results, yet I get only 2 visitors/day from it.

    I know wordtracker suggests that these 570 searches are done on the entire internet daily, let’s say only 250 will be searched in google. I have also found that at least 25% of those who search do click on the second results in google, so I might expect at least 60-80 visitors a day, not 2.

    Is wordtracker wrong? Does google show I’m in the 2, 3 and 4 place only to me? (unlikely, I’ve searched through scroogle.com and I’m still on the same place, that means my location doesn’t play a role in this). I really don’t know what to think now, I thought wordtracker is reliable and it provides real data, and I thought I finally found a way to dig niches, but it appears it is not as reliable as I thought.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @betaguy, No search tool is entirely accurate. Personally, I use Google’s own tool as a rough guide only. Even that can bring in skewed results. The logic is that I want to rank and get traffic mainly from Google, so their tool takes its results from their own index, so it must be the most accurate. But here’s the thing:

    Google KW tool takes results from 60% of search traffic and averages
    Wordtracker takes results from 2% and averages (at least it used to, maybe that is better now)

    So its still hit and miss, although you lessen the risk using the Google KW tool. Its free, after all. But you still have to test and test again. Sometimes you get lucky. There are no guarantees in this business unfortunately.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I use wordracker for speed and have found it to be pretty reliable as a guesstimate, but the G tool is fine too.

    Sounds like you just lucked out betaguy, go for longtails in the niche, and also check the G keyword tool to see how they compare. Sometimes it is also the fact that your item is seasonal, check in google trends and that may be the answer. It is often the case.

    +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Justin Deaville Reply:



    Perhaps I can help? I work for Wordtracker and am confused about where where you’re getting your numbers from. What tool were you using? I used Wordtracker’s http://www.wordtracker.com/find-the-best-keywords and get the following results:

    Socks – 2,530 searches
    Cotton socks – 60 searches

    Note that these figures are searches per year (not per day).

    Using the Keywords tool, I can also get Google’s figures and they are:

    Socks – 33,000 searches in the latest month (let’s assume 396,000 searches/year)
    Cotton socks – 880 searches in the latest month (let’s assume 10,560 searches/year)

    It’s always good to compare different figures, as keyword research figures vary enormously. That’s to be expected – all keyword tools have access to only a sample of the market. Wordtracker’s figures are real searches entered into our partner search engines and represent roughly 0.5% of the US search market. We’d expect, Google’s yearly figures to be 200-300 times those of Wordtracker’s. And that’s the case here.

    Don’t worry about specific numbers, though. Keyword research figures can only ever be a guide. Rather than comparing Wordtracker’s figures with Google’s, you should think about the relationship between keywords in the same dataset. So, it’s obvious that ‘socks’ gets a lot more (about 40 times more) searches than ‘cotton socks’. More importantly for your business, almost no-one searches for ‘large cotton socks’.

    That said, there are lots of searches for different types of socks. Try more http://www.wordtracker.com/keyword-research and you’ll find results for all these keywords – there’s plenty for you to target.

    You can take a free at: http://www.wordtracker.com/trial if you want to find Wordtracker (and Google) search figures for all these keywords and more …

    knee socks
    compression socks
    toe socks
    high knee socks
    socks for women
    knee hi socks
    basketball socks
    girls socks
    knee high socks
    girls in socks
    mens socks
    thigh high socks
    crew socks
    running socks
    tube socks
    smart wool socks
    socks cotton
    wool socks
    dress socks
    diabetic socks
    ankle socks
    best socks
    socks for kids
    thigh socks
    kids socks
    argyle socks
    gold toe socks
    striped socks
    custom socks
    socks sale
    baseball socks
    athletic socks
    cheap socks
    socks cheap
    no show socks
    crazy socks
    slipper socks
    slippers socks
    thorlos socks
    wholesale socks
    boys socks
    wigwam socks
    sport socks
    aqua socks
    hiking socks
    hanes socks
    volleyball socks
    boot socks
    support socks
    girls softball socks
    over knee socks
    compression socks running
    customize socks
    adrenaline socks
    jobst compression socks
    non skid socks
    funky socks
    cool socks
    socks that rock
    all cotton socks
    ski socks
    girls knee socks
    trouser socks
    100 cotton socks
    mens dress socks
    water socks
    bamboo socks
    polo socks
    pure cotton socks
    cycling socks
    cotton socks 100
    zebra socks
    injinji socks
    fun socks
    socks 100 cotton
    coolmax socks
    foot socks
    seamless socks
    balega socks
    big socks
    tall socks
    dress socks men
    men cotton socks
    champion socks
    flip flop socks
    children socks
    merino wool socks
    toes socks
    slouch socks
    fuzzy socks
    thick socks
    red lion socks
    socks with toes
    white knee socks
    tennis socks
    travel socks
    darn tough socks
    mens argyle socks
    fleece socks
    softest socks
    novelty socks
    cat socks
    cashmere socks
    fox river socks
    vans socks
    hue socks
    tabi socks
    non slip socks
    wide socks
    new balance socks
    socks for flats
    drymax socks
    japanese socks
    polka dot socks
    military socks
    comfort socks
    alpaca socks
    cotton socks for women
    warm socks
    socks for diabetics
    socks with grippers
    cotton socks men
    cotton socks women
    converse socks
    cotton socks for men
    mens black socks
    organic socks
    thermal socks
    cotton mens socks
    cotton socks mens
    acorn socks
    mens toe socks
    half socks
    k bell socks
    mens knee socks
    peds socks
    mens cotton socks
    rubber socks
    falke socks
    socks and tights
    acrylic socks
    moisture wicking socks
    elastic socks
    argyle knee socks
    cotton crew socks
    grip socks
    anklet socks
    footjoy socks
    ballet socks
    army socks
    mens red socks
    dickies socks
    wrestling socks
    cotton knee socks
    white cotton socks
    hello kitty socks
    blister socks
    cotton white socks
    footie socks
    compression socks men
    dance socks
    wool socks mens
    leather socks
    wedding socks
    travel compression socks
    mens ankle socks
    spa socks
    organic cotton socks
    mens compression socks
    keds socks
    kids knee socks
    teko socks
    mens striped socks
    best hiking socks
    thorlo tennis socks
    volcom socks
    black cotton socks
    dahlgren socks
    buster brown socks
    kilt socks
    lace ankle socks
    oakley socks
    cotton toe socks
    cotton dress socks
    mens purple socks
    mens slipper socks
    moisturizing socks
    thorlo walking socks
    hunting socks
    cotton rag socks
    aloe socks
    split toe socks
    disposable socks
    wool hiking socks
    rag wool socks
    bumble bee socks
    womens cotton socks
    thorlo boot socks
    cozy socks
    ragg cotton socks
    juzo socks
    christmas socks
    ragg wool socks
    comfy socks
    socks for soldiers
    100 cotton mens socks
    100 cotton socks for men
    dc socks
    100 cotton socks men
    cotton ragg socks
    mens 100 cotton socks
    knee high cotton socks
    fila socks
    triathlon socks
    balega running socks
    100 mens cotton socks
    cotton knee high socks
    polypropylene socks
    diabetic compression socks
    100 cotton socks women
    embroidered socks
    gold toe cotton socks
    batman socks
    acorn fleece socks
    sand volleyball socks
    redhead socks
    warmest socks
    quick dry socks
    totes socks
    cotton athletic socks
    thorlo socks sale
    patagonia socks
    thorlo socks discount
    non cotton socks
    feelmax toe socks
    discount thorlo socks
    cotton diabetic socks
    100 percent cotton socks
    cotton ankle socks
    mens novelty socks
    diabetic cotton socks
    fluffy socks
    wool slipper socks
    mens designer socks
    mens long socks
    school uniform socks
    mens cashmere socks
    cotton tube socks
    champion tube socks
    surgical socks
    polartec socks
    golf socks men
    totes slipper socks
    ladies golf socks
    medical compression socks
    cotton compression socks
    thick cotton socks
    cotton sports socks
    cotton baby socks
    wigwam cotton socks
    seamless diabetic socks
    mens white cotton socks
    mens cotton dress socks
    buster brown cotton socks
    ladies cotton socks
    100 cotton dress socks
    cotton trouser socks
    thigh high cotton socks
    snoopy socks
    fox racing socks
    cycle socks
    unusual socks
    girls cotton socks
    boys cotton socks
    danner socks
    red cotton socks
    heavy cotton socks
    cotton argyle socks
    armani socks
    halloween socks
    cotton boot socks
    lightweight cotton socks
    softop socks
    cotton soccer socks
    natural cotton socks
    cotton slouch socks
    defeet running socks
    mercerized cotton socks
    cotton support socks
    long cotton socks
    organic cotton socks women
    cotton lisle socks
    injinji socks sale
    white cotton knee socks
    100 organic cotton socks
    cotton ragg socks for women
    viyella socks
    mens christmas socks
    acorn socks sale
    bamboo cotton socks

    I hope that’s useful.

    Kind regards
    Justin Deaville
    CEO, Wordtracker

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Justin Deaville,

    I wonder if this means I will finally rank for all the “sock” terms?

    Vote -1 Vote +1betaguy Reply:

    @Justin Deaville,

    Justin Deaville,
    Thank you for your comprehensive answer and for taking your time to explain all the details for me.
    The numbers I brought to your attention aren’t for the socks’ keywords exactly: this was just a hypothetical example, my keyword and the search volume I exemplified in my question are in an entirely different niche, which I preferred not to tell and as the socks example was just to show what you at kind of keyword I was looking at.
    Anyway, your answer helped me and others (I guess) better understand how WT works and for sure it is a great addition to this discussion.

    @Dave, go get ready to welcome some socks’ seekers here 😉 they will be for sure

  20. indeed, Terry, I see nothing is constant here around 🙂
    the keyword I’m ranking for gets 46 monthly searches in G KW, compared to 570 daily in Wordtracker.
    I had to figure it out it was too beautiful to be true. ))

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @betaguy, last I checked a month ago Wordtracker was yearly not daily, it says those figures are from the past 365 days. Check it again, that probably explains why you’re not seeing much.

    Vote -1 Vote +1betaguy Reply:

    @Jesse, oh yes, you’re so right and I was so superficial not researching it at first and jumping into this blindly…
    but, a post on their blog dated Sept, 2010 (http://www.wordtracker.com/blog/change-is-for-the-better), says that: the searches in WordTracker are annual, but they represent just 1% of the US performed queries.
    That means that if I’ve got 570 searches for my keyword, and these are 1% of the annual figure, a rough estimation would say that there are 570 * 100 = 57000 annual searches within US for it;
    these 57000 annual searches, divided by 365 days would make 156 queries per day.

    So, it appears that 570 annual searches in WT means 156 daily searches. If we divide 570/156, we get a coefficient which can be used later for every WT result. The coefficient is 3.5, so for a daily estimation of searches you should divide the Searches’ numbers to 3.5 and you get an approximation of the daily searches.

    Anyway, they say it is purely informational and we shouldn’t rely on what they publish and that it would be better to compare keywords and not take everything for granted.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @betaguy, For actual volumes I would still probably stick to Google’s own tool. Or better yet take a term you know the volume of based of one of your exisiting sites and then run them in Insights.

    For me Wordtracker is better for finding longtails and variations that Adwords doesn’t show. but for main traffic pulling keywords I’d still use Adwords to base the page off, and then add the Wordtracker phrases in to capture longtails.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lorecee Reply:

    @Jesse, not true. Wordtracker’s numbers are daily searches. The only thing they changed was to start averaging the daily count over 365 days instead of doing a one-day snapshot.

    People argue a lot over which tool is more accurate, Wordtracker or Adwords. I’ve found both to be accurate for some keywords and way off base for others. Sometimes they match; sometimes they’re different by 500 or 1,000 searches per day.

    Like Dave, I enjoy Wordtracker’s ease of use. Type in a keyword and it spits back the daily US traffic (for products I go with US searches only because Americans spend the most money online and because things are often called by different names in different countries). Wordtracker also gives me more buying-oriented long tails than Adwords does because Adwords is set up to sell Adsense clicks.

    But after a quick check of the tools, the best way to find out is build and rank the thing. Drives me crazy sometimes.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Justin Deaville Reply:



    @Jesse is right – Wordtracker’s figures are yearly, the post mentioned is up-to-date: http://www.wordtracker.com/blog/change-is-for-the-better

    But, I wouldn’t worry too much about the exact numbers. Keyword research can only ever give you a best estimate of which words to target. For example, if two keywords – let’s say ‘tea’ and ‘coffee’ get different search numbers:

    Tea: 1,000 searches/year
    Coffee: 1 million searches/year

    You might want to target coffee, because it gets many more searches.

    BUT, you should also consider the competition. How many other people are targeting the coffee niche (Wordtracker’s Keywords tool will help you find out)? If you’re a newcomer up against well established coffee sites, it might be years before you can attract enough traffic to make a profit.

    So, how much traffic will you get? How many of those visitors will buy? And what’s your profit on coffee sales – maybe tea is a more profitable market? These are all factors that you’ll need to consider before investing in your search marketing campaign.

    You can find out more about how to find keywords for your target markets at: http://www.wordtracker.com/academy/keyword-research-target-markets

    Hope that’s useful.

    Justin, Wordtracker

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Justin Deaville,

    Thanks for clearing up the confusion Justin, nice of you to drop by. Even if you did spam me with quite a few sock keywords 😉

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Justin Deaville Reply:

    Sorry Dave, I didn’t mean to put my foot in it!

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Justin Deaville,

    Don’t give up the day job Justin 😉


    Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @Justin Deaville, Thanks for clearing that up Justin, thought I was going crazy for a moment 🙂

  21. “A lot of the high PR links come from sites that have pages dedicated to listing all the resources they can possibly think of about their niche. I mean often hundreds. And the sites they linked out to all had good PR and authority”

    For your mentally challenged readers (me) could you explain this a little more?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Jamie Sandford, Example:


    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:

    @Jamie Sandford,

    Hey Jamie, I learned a lot of what I know about backlinks from Terry Kyle. He wrote a report about this exact issue (http://terrykyle.net/april15-2010-post1.htm). His testing flies in the face of conventional wisdom. It seems reasonable to think that the more outbound links a site has, the less juice it will pass to each site it links to. But…

    When you start looking into it yourself, you find that lots of external links from a site doesn’t seem to lower the amount of juice that it passes. Pretty interesting, don’t you think?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Jamie Sandford,

    Sometime a page with a large amount of resources can be seen as very important in google, if you are one of the links then…….well.

    Or even making your own link post and adding in a link to your own site can boost your sites overall authority if yo absolutely ensure it is not done in a spammy way. Often high authority pages like that will spill the link juice and authority to the pages it links to.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jamie Sandford Reply:

    @Dave, That is indeed all very interesting. I was going to buy PR3 and PR4 domains and have 10 posts on the home page each linking once to another of my sites but I guess with this evidence I could, if I do it right, link to every domain I own?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Jamie Sandford,

    I wouldn’t. I put links to maybe 3 or 4 of my sites to spread the love but I also mix in other peeps sites too, just so the footprint is not too glaring and it also looks too much like a farm then. Keep it more natural as those home page links will be there for decades and will serve you very well.

    But everyone has their own way of playing this game Jamie, I just have my opinions but I never say they are the right ones.

  22. I totally understand what you’re saying about using other satellite sites to back up the main site but at what sort of level would you deem it is worth of creating such a network.
    I am on my first site and am unsure of the income potential i have an idea that is able to achieve decent results but won’t know for sure until I get onto the first page.
    It has 12000 exact(with the [ and ] ) searches which from what I read is plenty and will be set up as an affiliate site for amazon.
    Should I create some of these satellite sites now or should I wait until it progresses up the SERP’s. By the way I have joined keyword academy and have started to use postrunner, will progress to BMR when I have banked enough articles.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You don’t need to worry about it if it is just for one product. This is for if you have a larger site that covers lots of products. Then you can build a satellite site around each product or sub niche and send a link to the big site.

    But, if you do find that the site you are talking about takes off and earns then build a few more sites about the best keywords you uncover. More front page listings equals more money.

    The aim, once you find a winning niche should be to get ALL listings on page 1 if possible or at least the top 4 or 5.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Mark Reply:

    @Dave, Thanks for that, I thought I was starting to get IM but looks like I am thinking way too small. If you don’t mind me asking the sites that you are looking at building in the future, how are they monetized.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I do products. Amazon but also programs offered by CJ, shareasale and others.

    I have a few old adsense sites that brings in a bit $600-$900 or so a month but I don’t do it now, I just don’t do well at it and prefer product sales.

  23. Hi Dave,

    Another great post, that cava is certainly getting your creative juices flowing 😉
    I like the idea of expired/aged domains and have used them in the past as a way of avoiding the Google Dance/Sandbox that can be triggered when sending too many backlinks to fast to a new site so I can see how they would be effective as satelite/support sites.

    Slightly off topic but when you test a niche using hubs/lenses do you go broad e.g. “Discount White Socks” or do you focus on a single product e.g. “Buy Size 9 White Socks with 2 Blue Bands” on the hubs/lenses?

    Cheers and keep up the good work.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I go for a single product, much easier. But I am officially out of the Squid, Hub game totally. From now on I am keeping all my content to myself, it is just too much of a pain and Hubpages are doing my head in with their idiotic new policy of unpublishing one of the best Hubs online of many thousands of words because it had a few external links in it, muppets.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:


    I agree to a certain extent but any link in a storm 😉
    I will continue to use them (mainly lenses, I think HP are running scared after Panda) as part of support networks and for testing niche’s but I think they are reaching the end of their usefulness 🙁

    Looking forward to Lando’s book/course, we need all the advantages we can get these days.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    His guide is going to be awesome. In just a couple of weeks I am seeing sales for some of the sites I have done. All of them are only a few pages so far and I am getting trickles of traffic and once the backlinking begins in earnest I can see it being great.

    It is like jumping the queue in terms of ranking, and personally I am finding it a lot more satisfying testing out products in this way than on Squids etc. You can optimize layout for conversions, which you can’t do on other properties. But, it costs money so it isn’t for everyone, it is then back to the Squids, but Hubs really do seem to have died a death at the mo.

  24. As a noob I am missing how creating the networks is different from a link farm, could you explain? Even more confused after reading Eli’s blog.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Normally a link farm is a series of sites that will have a lot more posts on them and each post will send out a link, and often to unrelated sites.

    Here we are doing something a little different. We are making very niche specific sites around a few keywords and just sending maybe one or two links on the homepage article to our main site, and interlinking the smaller sites together to pass juice to each other.

    Basically they can earn money in their own right rather than just be throwaway sites for links. We actually create proper good content so they are quality sites. Not just a few words we throw together to get a link. We want them to be as good in terms of content as our main site.

    But, and let’s be honest, if we do anything to create a link then we are making a farm, but it is less polluting if it is good info we put up.

  25. Has anyone else noticed a change in double listings? I thought that usually if you get two pages to page one, the second one is pulled up by the first. I have a site that has had position 1and 2 for some time, I checked it today, and now I am position 1and 4. They are split by the shopping results, and brand name website.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Still all in a row for me. Anyone else?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Suzanne Reply:


    Weird, it’s a co.uk. Have checked .com’s and they are all in a row, but don’t have or know of any other double listings in co.uk that I can check. Google is certainly acting a bit odd at the moment. My one site that came back had got all the way to page one for a few keywords yesterday, made some sales too.

    Today it is back in the 600’s. You’ve got to laugh, or cry!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I hear ya, got a Squidoo Lens back today after it having been gone for months, it was massive traffic too. I haven’t done any linking to it since it went.

    I think that as far as rankings etc go we can pretty much forget the current positions for a few months and just do what we would do anyway.

    It happened last year and the serps made no sense for months.

    Makes you want to learn PPC!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, “Makes you want to learn PPC”

    …maybe that’s their sneaky little plan after all lmao!…

  26. Am just looking into starting my own mini blog networks but was worried about how to host them.

    I have bought some domains related to my main sites but had just parked them to stop others muscling in. Should I build sites on them even though the domains are very similar and all on same hostgator account?

    Cheers for a good post!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    If it is just a couple then go for it. But why not just get another hosting account and set them up there? If you haven’t started them then you won’t lose anything. Bluehost are about as good as it gets, hostnine are cool too.

  27. Quick question:

    Anybody know how to build WP sites like this:


    It has these menus that expand on mouse hover and it has a neat little flash gallery thingy on the front page.

    What kind of plugins or themes do you need to build sites like that?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Theme : http://www.arrastheme.com
    Demo : http://demo.arrastheme.com

    Vote -1 Vote +1Chris Reply:


    That’s done using Arras theme. It’s free and easy to use so knock yourself out! A poor man’s studiopress if you will.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Chris, Ah, the Arras theme. A friend of mine uses it and I’m familiar with it myself as well already.

    So you’re recommending StudioPress eh?

    What other professional looking themes like that do you know of?

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Chris Reply:


    I still use Arras on two of my sites. It works pretty well and you can customize it easy enough if you’re not afraid to break into the theme files. I had Suffusion on my main site (another free theme) for a while as well and it worked alright.

    But, I bought the Lifestyle theme from Studiopress a while back and it works quite good for me. You get the Genesis framework with it (if you’re into that sort of thing) and the theme comes with several color combos. The colors weren’t quite what I wanted, but with firebug it’s also really easy to change (easier than any free theme I tried to work with) and the support forums were good for the questions that I had. There’s a good selection of other themes there as well.

    Personally, I’ve never been one for the theme frameworks like Catalyst or Thesis. In my experience they tend to turn out things that don’t look quite professional if you don’t put a lot of work into them, and I’d rather pay for someone else to do that and focus on building up the site instead.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Chris, I have Catalyst and you are right that it looks quite ‘regular’.

    Don’t feel like putting in the work to make it look stylish as well.

    What is the difference between these two StudioPresses?



    And why is the latter one speaking of Genesis?

    A little confusing if you ask me!

    Which StudioPress are you talking about?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Chris Reply:


    I’m talking about Studiopress.com. The other I guess is a free theme looking to piggyback off of people looking for the Premium themes.

    Genesis is the theme framework that all the studiopress themes use. It’s like Catalyst or Thesis. I’ve never tried to use it so I can’t really pass judgement on it.

    But the other themes at Studiopress are child themes that are built on top of the Genesis framework. So the first time you buy a theme from them you need to buy the theme and the framework, after that you can just buy the child theme.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Shaun L Reply:

    Looking at the date of the comments on Daily Blog Tips, that free Studio Press themem was out well before the genesis framework was released…

    But yer, Genesis Framework is top quality. I’ve used their themes on a couple of my sites and they’re better then any free themes i’ve ever used (Although i usually design my own themes / heavily edit the old defalt WordPress theme). Their support forum is top quality too, answered my questions extremely quickly. Can’t recommend them enough!

    P.S. Dave, please insert my Studiopress affiliate link in there please. Cheers mate 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bern Reply:


    Studipress offer some superb and professional themes – we use them a lot. There support is also top notch.

    We also use a lot of Ithemes themes although their support only lasts one year unless you re-new it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Bern, There’s woothemes as well.
    After the shitstorm of bugs that I’ve encountered with free themes that haven’t been upgraded in a while, paying $150 a year is trivial.

    They also update their themes as and when new WP calls are made available so the silent speedboost is always a bonus.

    I used to be a big fan of themeforest too, but you never know what kind of code the theme has unless you buy it and even then there’s no promise of upgrades.

    Studiopress is A+ in my book as well. I’ve been waiting for copyblogger to get a new theme so that their current one would be up for grabs. Ever since Brain’s started contributing to Studiopress’ direction, it’s been nothing but gold coming out of that shop.

  28. thats the ARRAS theme
    just view source and search for “wp-content/themes/”


    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @xxecxx, Yeah that’s an easy way of finding it.

    I had checked the source but only looked at the footer really.


  29. @betaguy, Wordtracker figures are annual not daily.

  30. Hey Dave,

    A question about how hard to hit my site with links. I have a site that is over a year old and is number 1 for many keywords including your buying kewords TYVM 🙂 I have been using BMR to it.

    Several of the posts are best nike socks, best reebok socks, best fruit of the loom socks etc.

    I want to rank those post with other buying KW’s. How many a day should I hit each post with. I know I should vary the amount, but wondering if you can offer some guidance.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    1. Where does it already rank for those keywords?
    2. Do you have those keywords in your copy as H2s?
    3. Tried incorporating them in your meta-keywords?*

    * I’ve only had it work after putting the keywords in the article itself. Otherwise google just ignores my snippet and picks out itself.

    /Not link building advice.
    Dave’s the closest thing we have next to Cutts on that.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I just do it and cross my fingers, no expert advice here, just a Dude in the trenches.

    But things are definitely up in G land. Links aren’t having the same short term results they did, for me at least, it seems much more of a waitinh game now.

    It is why I now advocate slightly slower link building, no point doing it if the links you make don’t have total effect for a few months. It seems the days of make 10 BMR links and rank higher the next day are not so common anymore.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Pete Reply:


    I’ve actually been wondering the same thing, seems to be a bit of delay adding the links and getting results. I was happy to see one post that I’d given a few links to a week or so ago get a nice boost in the serps today….they just kicked in. Seemed to have the same power but a delayed effect…stange.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    There is a lot of weirdness in the serps at the mo, I wouldn’t trust any of it for a few months yet.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Congrats, sounds like it is doing good.

    Here is my quandary:

    The better my sites do the more loathe I am to risk things. I have gone for about 3 months hammering a site with 10 BMR a day and all was good, but now my baby has gone from the serps (sad face).

    I think it was the algo update but I now advise caution. If you have a good earner I am more inclined to keep the linking more low level, i.e a few links a day and never every day.

    I only say this to be uber cautious. If you have a money site and it is important then play it safe to keep earning.

    But I also still send 10 or even 30 links a day to sites via postrunner and BMR no problem but they are not sites I don’t mind missing for a few months if I overdo it.

    So, bottom line, go for it if you can handle a sandbox for a few months/ a year, if not tread gently grasshopper.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JohnM Reply:


    The site was on the back burner for months. It is a product niche and I started to send 1 link a day for about 14 days to the site. Each link was either the niche or a product name. I varied it with your buying KW too. After 14 days I started to send 1-3 a day, same vary in links. It is now #1 to #5 for several KW like best white socks, best white socks for running etc. It earned $125 on Amazon last month.

    I guess I will continue to send 1-3 a day for the longtails that I’m seeing in my statcounter statistics. No more than 3 a day and vary the links.

    I am also thinking of expanding the site to include other products that are related to it.


    The KWs rank #1 for several and also in the top 10 for a bunch of longtails.
    Most of the titles on the pages are H3. Should I change them to H2 and how would I do that?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Pete Reply:


    I’ve been cautious on my sites that are ranked and earning too…slow and steady on those puppies.

    And for those who question whether the sandbox it still around it is, and kicked my butt recently.

    I had two new sites get their walking papers there. I think it had to do with adding a bunch of affilitate links to the sidebar and messing with the theme…before those changes the site and posts had been ranking naturally for a few months…no links it at all. I was going to let it age a few more months, but couldn’t help tweaking the site layout.

    They are correlated, but might not be caused by each other, but since I’m not doing anything else to them, can’t imagine what it might be. I’ll send about 2 or 3 links a day at them and just build another site around the same niche….

    The things we must do to earn a buck 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I hear you Pete. I changed my theme on a site right around the update to the algo, now I will never know.

    Slow and steady is what I recommend now, and don’t forget to look in to aged domains if you are going to set up a new site, I am getting some impressive results, got a juicy PR5 yesterday for a nice low sum 😉 And a PR4 that is 8 yrs old for about $130 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Pete Reply:


    Ach…you pimping that Ebook again 😉 Actually seriously consider buying it. I made a foiled attempt into aged domains a year ago. If Lando’s book isn’t too expesnive and can get me on the right track, I’ll give it another go and get me some of that sweet sweet juice..:-)

    BTW..just went on a $300 shopping spree on Amazon for some travel gear, used your link…ain’t much, but my way of saying thanks dude!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks Man, much appreciated, it all adds up.

    The aged domain stuff is pretty straightforward, if I can get to grips with it anyone can. It is simple really but a hold your hand type of guide will make it easier.

    It think it will be cheap enough, but that is down to lando.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:

    What are you looking for in an aged domain?
    – age X years
    – PR Y
    – Z amount of high PR links

    Yesterday I learned how to process GoDaddy’s Closeouts domains lists with Scrapebox to get the PR and backlink data. And now I feel like an obese kid in a candy shop 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Age of site seems to be very important, more so than I previously thought, PR or not.

    But what I really want is an old site with old links. So far the best stuff is good PR old sites with links dating back years and years. They are going to stick a lot better long term.

    I almost wet myself the other day. A site had a link from the PR10 White House site!!!!

    Man, I would have been in heaven.

    It had gone though, so I cried a tear and cursed Lando for his stupid accent.

    Sound like you are going spending Janis, save some for me.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JanisG Reply:

    Good stuff!

    What about dropped domains? Would it work as well?
    Here is an example – the domain craigpac.com is free to register. There used to be the site, but not anymoree. If you check backlinks of craigpac.com, you see a bunch of links back from 2006 pointing to this domain. My understanding is that if you register the domain, you will benefit from these old links. Or am I missing something?

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    Automatic Authority is on the way. It is much more work than I originally anticipated. The videos are going to show you the exact steps I take, from finding domain names, all the way through to setting up my aged, high page rank sites.

    Not thought too hard about price yet. One idea that I’m toying with though, is a discount for Dave’s RSS subscribers.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Darrell Reply:


    If you change your theme, then you are changing code on the site. Your site will likely disappear for a couple of weeks to several months. I have tested this out and each time I change the theme, the same thing happens.

    For instance, I stopped using free themes last year because they didn’t always update them with wordpress updates. Each time I changed from Frugal theme to Catalyst theme – which kicks ass by the way for wordpress themes and customization, I lost rankings literally within a few days. 2 sites disappeared for over 2 months. Finally, they are back, although 1 is still hurting abit from an error that I did several months ago with the code. My bad….

    I would recommend people stop using free themes and go with a professional theme. You can customize the hell out of them. For instance, Catalyst theme has like 800 options and each page can be unique and different. Other people like ithemes or thesis. Whatever floats your boat.

    Have a great day

  31. Dave, how in the world do you keep track of your keywords? Simple is best (I don’t need to keep track of every backlink I ever built), but if you’re storing everything in your head, then you must be some kind of mad genius. Do you keep a basic spreadsheet? A laundry list in Word? Or do you jot them down on a Cava-stained napkin? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I can’t even use Excel!

    I have statcounter for my sites and I look in there and build links/content based on the terms I want to go for and what shows up in the search stats.

    That’s it.

    Sorry if it is simple but I don’t really need anything else.

    Basically what I do on a regular basis is type in buying terms and my product and see where I rank. If I am not numero uno I send some links to my result that shows up. I just go through all the terms over a long period of time. By the time you get to the end you should be ranking for the first ones you linked for and then I do it all again, like, forever 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:


    in regards to Statcounter, I was trying to find the top entrance keywords for EACH of my pages in a particular site, but I find a bit hard to do in Statcounter. “keyword analysis” only show the entrance keywords for all your pages; “recent keyword activity” was the best that I could get, but even that is not as optimized as I wish.

    I like Google analytics more in that matter: there you can quickly sort per page, which keywords led to that particular page. This way it is quite easy then to find out which keywords that you didn’t really target that are getting traffic, create new post, interlink and double listing galore ..

    I’m just wondering since you mainly use Statcounter, how do you keep track of WHICH page should you interlink your new post to get double listing? For example, you might see a keyword that you did not optimize for it in your stats and you will create a new post about it. But then, how do you know which page exactly to interlink it?

    Probably most of them you know more or less which page you should interlink to, but just curious to see if there is a technique that you can share 🙂


    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    Hey Dave great post, how about a post that shows us how you work and organize? I suspect it would be a short post but the question has been asked a lot of times in the comment area.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Ryan T,

    It would be very short.

    Pick topic, write content. Make backlinks until it ranks. If it earns then build more sites in same niche. If not have a lie down and start again the next day.

    Don’t worry about keywords, competition, etc. If it comes up in google auto complete or Amazon then a good few peeps are looking for it. But the longtails that never show up are where the money is. Work through backlinking for all the buying terms and some will be winners.

    Oh, make a load of sites that bomb however hard you work on them. Must not forget that 😉

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Nothing fancy I am afraid. I just do a quick run through Google to see what second page ranks. If I know I don’t already have a suitable page I just write a new one.

    I know it means a little more work than with G but I don’t want my sites in their accounts, they know too much already. Plus, once you get a feel for a site I seem to just know instinctively what I need to do, I KNOW if I have 2 pages that are right or if I need a new page for a second listing.

    The more I do this the more I seem to just work on instinct. e.g I didn’t look at a single keyword tool or anything at all for my series of new aged domain sites. I just picked popular stuff on Amazon and built sites around the product/products.

    Now, when I look at the competition I see that it would have put me off if I did look. But it is surprising what you can actually rank for so I don’t pay much heed to competition. Especially if you can get a nice network of decent PR links for your stuff.

    IM Instinct.

    It has a nice ring to it 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:


    humm, interesting. Yeah, I’m getting more of that instinct feeling when creating new pages and new websites. Of course I still rely on some competition checking since I don’t believe that I have the same backlink “arsenal power” as you do ;). So it can’t hurt to double check. But I learned from you to not over analyze my competition and just stick my head out and see what happens. Maybe I’ll get burned, maybe I won’t …

    That is what I was doing, I was checking with a simple search function:
    “site:YOURSITE intext:”KEYWORD””

    then I could quickly see which pages mentioned that keyword and how I should optimize and prioritize them.

    thanks again

  32. Dave,
    If I have a site that is for an amazon product and the buyer searches for the product they will also find amazon right at the top of the results. why would someone click on my site if they can go to amazon directly since its a more trustworthy site than my unknown site. thanks for reply..

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Well, first you can outrank Amazon so you get the cookie if they click your link. Second it depends if they know if thy are going to Amazon when they click your aff link if you are below them.

    So you need to try different calls to action to se if mentioning, not mentioning Amazon gives you a better conversion. Mostly, unless I am doing a review site I don’t mention Amazon inmy content, I just use a buy button or link and send them on over. Then if they find Amazon as well they give up and SEND ME MOOLAH!

  33. WTF BMR? Too many posts still on pending status for the past few days. BMR please hurry the F* up.

  34. http://www.clickbank.com/blog/2011/03/15/new-affiliate-marketing-today-podcast-success-as-an-internet-marketing-couple/
    Looks like you and wifey aren’t the only IM couple after all 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Shaun L,

    Yeah, but we the best innit!

  35. @JohnM, I guess that’s because your site title is an H1, your post title is an H2 and everything else is H3? It all depends on what theme you’re using.

    If that isn’t the case then you can select the heading and change it to H2 in your WP backend. Just expand the toolbar and you’ll see it right there.

    It should make a dent in rankings if you change it around.

  36. What a joke, I see 1 organic listing above the fold. G seems to have spaced out the serps and gone hell for leather for the cash. I mean, c’mon. We need to EAT!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, WTF kinda SERP is that?

    Mine looks normal for the same term.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    They must be updating. Even the Wifes looks like the old results and we sit next to each other!

    Not good if this is what we are gonna be seeing in the future. Talk about driving you to PPC! Boo.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, http://mashable.com/2011/05/06/google-redesigned-search/

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I hope it isn’t permanent.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Interesting turn of events. I read that post and then the comments… and not one of those bloody morons made any reference to the fact that Google are deliberately directing the attention of surfers right at their own paid ads at the top and away from the free listings, most of which are now below the fold. At the same time they’re duping those brain dead morons into thinking its done for their benefit and a better search experience. Jeez.

    The problem is that no one is going to NOT use Google and make a point of using Bing instead. Google is etched onto people’s brains as the only serious search engine and Google damn well knows it!

    Its self serving trickery. It will force even more people to use PPC to get traffic, making even more KW results display 3 ads at the top and so it will spiral.

    Good for Google’s bank account. Bad for the rest of us.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Terry, If you are referring to the image of the Twitter search you find at that link…


    I don’t see any ads.

    I can’t see the new SERPs from here. Can somebody provide a bunch of screenshots for a bunch of terms please?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Blackthorne, I was talking about the post and its comments here:


    The ads I was talking about are what I can see on my own Google search for a number of terms.

    A left sidebar won’t affect traffic, but a top block of three big ads will push the serp positions down below the fold. We all know that what surfers see first is what appears above the fold, and the first thing you can help but see are Google’s 3 top ads above position #1 in the serps.

    Most regular peeps have no clue that those ads are even ads!

    Most people will click them first just like they always used to click the top serp position, because that’s what they see them as. The more KWs that attract those ads, the worse it will be for the true #1 site for each KW.

    This is not speculation or scaremongering. If Google go ahead and make this a permanent change, then this is very real.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Terry, In doing some research into this, I came across a change that made people think the sky was going to fall 1 year ago.

    1 Year ago, Google decided to shove a left sidebar into our faces. I remember people worrying about somehow costing them traffic. But it didn’t happen.

    Whether G is going to push this change or not, I am going to assume that G isn’t going to take the Internet’s websites’ traffic away.

    I just don’t feel like worrying about it. If I did, I would not be able to get work done. And this is not in line with me keeping my head low and putting in the work.

    So I am just gonna go back to laying low and putting in the work again.

    Cya next week.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It’s a total joke. Don’t pay for links as it is against the terms and conditions of Google yet pay google for links and you can rank number 1 for any term you like if your pockets are deep enough.

    It has always been a joke but serps results like that make it a real mockery. For many peeps they are going to see 1 natural search result if they are lucky. And you are right Tel, the average surfer is not going to have a clue that the top listings are paid for. It is a total mockery of what G says they are about.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, Yep, sort of expanded on that in my answer to Blackthorne above.

    And yes, they are spamming the top 3 positions of their own bloody index with paid for ads. That is so two faced, dishonest and downright unfair.

    If I were the CEO of J.C. Penny, I would probably be consulting my lawyers about now…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Suzanne Reply:


    I have seen some results like this today, then the next search I did was normal. No idea what they are up to, it had a completely different look to it than what you normally get.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:

    Lol, Do no evil eh?

    Too bad i’ve been banned from Adwords

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    All mine are like it now, really spaced out with minimal results above the fold. But the Wifes computer still shows old results. Very odd indeed.

  37. I have a niche that is on the 2nd or 3d page for most keywords. One obscure keyword is at the bottom of page 1. The site is monetized with Amazon. When I check the keywords for google.ca (Canada), I am high up on page one for most of the keywords. My question is how can you monetize a niche for two countries? Or is it even possible? Should I look at trying to dominate two different niche around the same keywords but for different countries?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Larry, Sweet mother I wish you hadn’t reminded me.

    Where are the good old days when all you got was US traffic?

    I have CA traffic as well and now I prolly have to use some friggin’ plugin to and deal with multiple links for different countries.

    There’s also the UK Amazon you know.

    Why can’t a guy just have 1 single all-in-one Amazon aff account?


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You can put links to Amazon Canada on it, and there is a plugin that does it automatically although I could never get it to work.

    But there is nothing wrong with 2 sites for the same keywords for 2 countries, we have a couple for the UK market, although they don’t spend like the US.

  38. @Dave,

    I think they are updating more than just the looks of the SERPs …

    Yesterday I had one of the worst days ever, 25% revenue only … page impressions reaching all time lows and the like … it seems that more people felt it too

    anyone having the same results as well?? panda v3 maybe?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:

    well, I’m checking my rankings and they seem ok at this moment …

    there were some comments here http://www.webmasterworld.com/google_adsense/4306520-4-30.htm about these last few days …

    I dunno what happened, but I’ll wait some days to see what happen … ’till then, no google for you! 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    If the serps carry on looking like they do for me then it is gonna be hard to make a living, no doubt about that. Especially for niches with a lot of adwords players.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Can you show us some more serp examples?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Suzanne Reply:


    Mine are like it in the UK, for .co.uk. However if I use google global and switch to .com results, then they are the old style. Hopefully this is just a test, and not something that they are going to roll out. Wondering if anyone has seen the effect on their traffic today?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:


    yep, it is not going to be easy.

    But besides just the looks of the SERPS, is anyone else experiencing low traffic numbers? Since Friday, I’m having only 30% of my regular traffic across all my websites … Maybe there was some Google Update released … Well, probably because they tend to have one every day 😀 … but it seems that this one has got me

    Anyone else?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    That’s a bit of a kicker. Nothing that dramatic for me but all sites that have adwords competition are down a bit. Luckily a lot of my stuff doesn’t really have many peeps paying for traffic so the serps don’t like so bad.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:


    humm … I’ll wait a few days before jumping to any conclusion. Like Grizzly once mentioned, it is far too easy to quickly jump to the wrong conclusion … Nonetheless, if I had to point a culprit of some kind I’d say something about EMDs since most of my earnings come from EMD websites ..

    Yes, I’m slowly moving away from EMDs following your and many other people’s advice, but it takes some time to build authority websites so I still had some earning from EMDs … Oh well, it seems that the wake up call for EMDs came up early 😉 … but let’s wait some days to see what happens after the dust settles down …

  39. Most of my sites are down in traffic because all my keywords have 1,2, or 3 Adwords ads right at the top of the search page.

    This is a new thing the last 3 days or so as it looks like Google thinks it’s ads are the best content after all. I hope this is just a temporary test.

    All this talk from Google about how we should be creating great content and helping the searcher and they decide to put their crap ads at the top. I have been clicking a lot of them for the last 3 days just to cost those advertisers money. And a lot of those ads sites are pure crap as well.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    My earnings and traffic has been down too, not sure if its because of the new roll outs.

    Well Seth, just remember that these guys might have a family too. My policy is to never cost advertiser money if i can help it but thats just me.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @Ryan T, I probably shouldn’t be clicking the ads I admit but I am also curious to see the “quality” of their websites that Google is so proudly putting up at the top. Many of them are 100% legitimate of course, but some are very suspect.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    I think this still trick still work if you dont wanna cost the advertiser money.

    Just right-click copy url” and cut out the google code part. This way you wont cost the advertiser money

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:

    @Ryan T,

    yeah, so far is hard to tell if it that change in the SERPs looks or if there was some kind of algo change ..

    I’ll see how this week goes and run some tests, but so far I’ve checked my rankings in my main websites and they still hold rankings =/ … So, since I believe that people did not stop searching for my main kw and other long tail kws, then maybe is something with the new looks

    Let’s wait and anyone experiencing the same could post here or we could talk somewhere else to not fill the comments sections here with nonsense 😀

    FB anyone? “Bruno Wix” my name over there in case anyone want to share their thoughts about these last few days …

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It is total BS. Make quality sites, no paid links, no manipulating the serps, etc etc.

    Oh, but by the way if you want the crappest of crap sites to rank number 1 then just fill our pockets! If it stays the way it is it can hardly be called a search engine, it is just a paid directory based on keywords.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I notice a real change in your mood since this. I get the eerie feeling you’ve been losing big, but I hope you are still doing alright. You once said that, even if you lost it all… you still built up a really nice nest egg.

    I wanted to see what the new serps would look like on my own monitor (a big ass 25.5 incher). So I took your screenshot, opened it in a browser, set the browser to maximize and took a screenshot.

    This is what it looks like:

    You can see that, on my screen, there is still place for 3-4 search results, with the ads ‘only’ taking up a third of the screen.

    More people are getting bigger screens as time progresses. But then again, the world is also moving towards mobile devices with smaller screens.

    Mashable says it’s a user test. How many user tests end up making the final cut? Anybody know of this?

    Dave, if you are upset enough that you’d like to let G know then perhaps you ought to make a post here:


    Just be sure it’s polite and wel written.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:


    This is what it looks like:


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I am cool Dude. Most of my stuff does not have competition for ads and I rank number 1 for hundreds and hundreds of terms so I am still good even with ads.

    I am maybe just a little tired and thankfully we are off for a holiday on Thursday so I will be back well motivated. It is Lando’s fault really.

    I have been buying a ton of aged domains and installing wordpress, finding themes, researching loads of new niches and writing GOOD content is more tiring that churning out 30 or 40 BMR’s a day. But I am almost done with my aged domain buying so am looking forward to a rest.

    You are right about screen size, but many still use smaller ones, i.e I am on a 15 inch laptop all day. I have to have small screens, tv’s etc as my solar system would melt down with larger gadgets! Shame but there you go.

    But, new sales in new niches on single page sites is not something I expected so I forgive Lando his inspiration. Money in the bank and all that 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Forgot to say, you are right, we have a nice nest egg. Enough for more than a decade now. I have given up worrying about any of this game now.

    I just do it, make plenty of back up sites to age for any niche that does well and is then ready to take over after a years work if the need arises.

    I could always try PPC too, but that is like falling for the game G seems to be playing, but who said this game was fair?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan T Reply:


    Wow man your nest egg is VERY impressive, my goal was to have a “buffer” of one to two year… ten year is just so reassuring.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Ryan T,

    Yeah, we have worked hard for it but it is good to know. Plus we are very frugal, we don’t really spend any money. Not that it is easy living up a mountain.

    If it carries on then we will buy a house in the UK soon, then I can spend 😉 With everything closed here in Spain from 1-5 it ain’t easy to go shopping!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I’m glad to hear you are doing alright.

    Like Ryan says… a decade worth of money is assuring. But inflation steals your money’s value while it’s in the bank.

    Just make sure to pay off a house from it. And invest in other stuff that has value and is durable.

    Us IM’ers have to stick together on stuff like this Dave. We have to assume that things will have a way of working out nicely, despite Google’s antics. We have to assume we’ll be riding one wave after another until we become (multi) millionaires.

    Everything is volatile. Even ‘permanent jobs’. No use worrying. Just gotta ride that wave until we hit our pot of gold!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Will do. Hopefully soon we will have enough to buy in the UK again. I am never going back to a mortgage though. We will just stay here in our Spanish stone cottage until we have the funds.

    You are right Blackthorne, we just need to stay on top of the game and move with the times. Whatever happens someone has to rank!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Screw rankings. I’ll be happy with long tails. Those don’t require such high rank and are much more stable.

    Thankfully, I’m much better at getting longtails than I am at getting dead-on, laser-targeted, specific keywords.

    So I’ll just stick with that. 🙂

    And what’s wrong with a stone cottage? It’s kinda romantic. Why live in the UK? What’s so great about it? At least Spain is sunny!

    Just keep living there until you approximate financial invincibility. You’re doing great.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, STOP PRESS:

    Are you fed up with Google’s new Paid Directory (formerly Search Engine)? Don’t despair, there IS an alternative for Internet Marketers. Introducing:

    How to Game the Crap Out of Bing and Rank #1 Every Time

    My new ebook tells it like it is, why Google is dead and why Bing is the New Google. Rank #1 in Bing and make $1942.73 in your sleep every night with my “push-button-and-forget” super duper totally white hat software that is better than 99.9% of all WSO’s and is guaranteed to work with a 30 day, no 60 day, no… 90 day , no… to hell with it UNLIMITED money back guarantee (as soon as I’m out of the country)!

    Promotional offer 50% off original price $487 to you guys, a mere $247 (cheap!)

    … 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:



    Can I have 2?

    I love me a bit of Bing 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, hahaha…

    …anyway, there is a serious side to that little jest. Bing can be gamed, but it has some kind of whacked out logic to ranking that defies my testing… erm hang on, this is all hypothetical of course and its not really me posting this, its my, um, dog…

    Sites can be pushed near the top by linking just the same as with G, except nofollow links all count. BUT page rank is irrelevant. Links from .edu and .gov still seem to have weight.

    So, the astute amongst you would naturally conclude that a serious session of easy comment spamming might be in order… Well, mmm it can get you some of the way but not necessarily all the way.

    I was interested in why one site of mine in particular ranked top 3 in Bing but simply would not budge above page 3 in G. It was linked pretty hard using forum profiles, free blog posts and all the usual stuff, but even though competition is not all that stiff for its main KW, I still couldn’t get it to rank in G. But Bing loves the site. What is the key?

    Another niche, different site, fairly high comp KW and my site ranks almost identical on Page1 in both SEs. Exactly the same linking strategy (only more so because of the competition). So why do both SEs love this site but only Bing loves the other?

    Do I have the key?


    Do I have some ideas?


    Am I going to tell?


    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Terry, Oops should have mentioned, if you’re going to test anything with Bing and …um… send a site a lot of links, be prepared to lose it in G, because they don’t much like that kind of thing. Best to set up a site just for Bing and accept it will probably never rank in G after your done with it.

    For affiliate sales, Bing traffic converts way better than G traffic. It just does.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Ha, I may be after you for your secrets if Bing becomes more of a player.

    You know, I wonder where we will all be in 5 years time. Will we still be talking about Google at all? It will be interesting to see what happens, things could be very different.

    But for now?………..

    Backlinks it is, and buckets of em, or super high quality links, which is nice to be doing for a change.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jesse Reply:

    @Dave, Plenty of people make big money with PPC though, sure it’s giving Google money but if the ROI is high who cares in the end.

    You also mentioned that PPC lets you rank a crappy site through paying but that’s not really true as Adwords has banned loads of people with thin sites. Either that or they make you pay more if your site doesn’t have a high enough quality score.

    Would be interesting to see the share between Adwords and Adsense that Google takes although I’d assume the split is better for them with Adwords since they don’t share with publishers so they probably prefer that.

  40. Lando has informed me that he is almost ready to go with “Automatic Authority”.

    He has a sample vid up http://www.dockingbay94.info/ and the background work is looking good. A short-cut to niche domination? Certainly.

    The answer to everything?

    No. But so far so good and I am amazed how quickly you can rank with aged domains. I have tried it for two sites each going after a term I have been after for almost 2 years. 1 site is page 1 after a week and the other is page 2 after a few weeks.

    I am in no doubt that at least for now this is the way for all of us to get a short-cut to ranking and earning.

    Hopefully it will be out when I come back off me hols in just under 2 weeks so stay tuned and get ready to rumble. There will be fighting and a few victors. We are going to get a discount for the first month from my site so if you want in then check back soon.

    Cheesy enough for you Lando??????

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    You bring the cheese, I’ll bring the vino!

    I just discovered a new “trick” today. Well, not so much a trick as something really cool. It meant I got a PR5 website for $62. Shiiiiit! The funny thing is that the “trick” is so easy. But the fact that I hardly had any competition at auction tells me that there’s still a lot of people who don’t realize it.

    Considering I spent over $200 on a PR4 the other day, I’m feeling like things have leveled out nicely.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    I do hope that when I check my email there will be something there worth reading Lando 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    Yeah, a “buy now” link 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94,

    Are you just using Godaddy auctions or Namejet, Snapnames etc as well?

    I find Godaddy auctions are getting stupid for bidders going crazy on some domains. One bloke raised a perfectly good bidding session by $400 in a single bid, so everyone else just followed – a PR5 going for over $600 at last look and it wasn’t all that great. Sheesh!

    There’s still the chance that G will pull the PR at the next update. Not worth that kind of money for the risk.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    Hey Terry, I’ve used GoDaddy more than the others but agree that things there sometimes start getting crazy long before the auction closes. That said, I paid over $200 for a PR4 on Namejet the other day. There was another PR4 I was bidding on at Namejet)
    that I wanted but dropped out after it went over $250. So it’s not just GoDaddy that is going bonkers. In fact, I picked up my latest PR5 on Godaddy for $62 😉 The backlink profile is decent too.

    I’ve definitely learned from my mistakes:
    – paying too much for DMOZ listed sites only to see them lose their DMOZ link.
    – getting auction fever and bidding too much (winning!).

    The biggest take away for me in this domain buying game is patience. There are some great domains out there if we just take our time. At the same time, sometimes a domain is just perfect for your needs, good links, nice age and the domain name fits. That’s when I stop mucking about and just make sure I get it. But a $400 raise? Only Dave could be so bold!

  41. Dave what tool(s) do you use to know whether a keyword term “converts”? Amazon has really lame tools – a new ID for every link/page?? I am avoiding Analytics and google webmaster tools, and I got slapped hard on a few of my $$ sites so I’m starting from scratch and need good stats. I use statcounter too, but that can’t tell re: conversions either, unless I”m missing something.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:


    hey sue, quick question: when you say you got slapped hard, did it happen in the last few days and in Adsense? or is something that happened a while ago?

    If this is something that happened the last few days, I would wait. Myself and many other people were experiencing all time lows, but now things seem to be getting back to normal …

    Vote -1 Vote +1Sue Reply:

    @Bruno, no it was google, am nowhere in the serps – 600’s down from page 1 – primarily amazon ads, I moved off adsense for these sites a year or more ago. In Statcounter i can see it flatline after April 4, for 3-4 of my sites. Actually I misspoke, one was adsense. all clustered under one gmail/webmasters account though.

    wish I could also say things seem to be getting back to normal but it’s my own fault, focusing on just a few $$-earning keywords which I’m guessing is the problem. Now whether to keep working on these sites or move on for now .. thoughts?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sorry Sue, I don’t. I don’t know from stats what converts. I just kind of try to rank for the main term and all the buying terms.

    The reality is that the best converting terms are the longtails, I mean hundreds, if not thousands of them, that you get without trying once you rank for a handful of buying terms.

    Basically, if you go after any keywords with:
    for sale
    best price
    etc, at the beginning and end of your keyword then you will never be able to track all the terms as you will be faced with so many longtails that your main term would be the bottom of your stats results anyway. You will see hundreds and hundreds of searches that are for 1 or 2 visitors using terms pretty much unique to them and them alone.

    Most searches have never even been entered in to a search engine before. Or so minimally they won’t show up in any tool or even often in your stats.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Sue Reply:

    @Dave, My problem probably was focusing on just a few keywords, and *not* on enough long tails and others. Thanks Dave.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Honestly Sue it is the best kept secret in this game. Instead of chasing after the tough terms go after tons of longtails.

    Sure, set up posts and content for the harder stuff, but then backlink for a ton of longtails, anything that shows in your stats you are not number 1 for then backlink it.

    And just be intuitive, or ask your Mum. Seriously, ask friends and family what they type in to find something at a good price. It is a real eye opener.

  42. I have a question that I want to throw in here. Please give me your feedback.

    (Dave I also asked you this over email, but feel free to answer here)

    Here goes…

    Over a month ago, I have set up a general (broad) site where I review Amazon products $200 and up.

    I’ve added 4 new posts (average 800 words and pictures) on it every week. There are few Amazon links on all pages.

    There are now a total of 24 such lovely looking, lengthy pages on there with few Amazon links.

    The site has been linked up with 35 BMRs every single week. The links are spread thin over the new posts for the previous week.

    The site slowly climbed to 30 uniques per day. Since yesterday… no more SE traffic! The site’s rankings have tanked completely.

    Since you’re all learning from my costly mistakes here, maybe you can repay me with some feedback.

    It looks to me like 35 BMR per week is already too much and that more then zero Amazon links on *every single* page is also too much already.

    I have another site that hardly has any Amazon links and its flying with 35 BMRs per week. I had 250 uniques yesterday and it’s also just over a month old.

    Does anybody have similar experiences?

    What to do with a new site that tanks? My gut says add more content without money links and more internal links.

    Vote -1 Vote +1mkt Reply:


    Does all your pages contain Amazon links?

    I have had one of these tanked completely!…but that was back in April 16. No SE traffic anymore.

    The only difference I had 0 link building, it was climbing the SE ladder very well from pure SEO, ranking pretty well for alot of terms, then died a miserable death. When I get the chance I be reworking this site to see if I can rerank it by remove all links and do link building to it and see how it will rank. I think

    Your gut is right…money links is still ok BUT add more internal pages and non-money pages. A balance profile…otherwise you nothing more than a portal to Amazon. I have a similar site to above and nothing change but difference is not spammed with Amazon links, it is more diversify in terms of articles and it is ranking really well in G.

    That is my experience anyway…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @mkt, Ayup, all pages.

    That’s useful info there.

    Even with 0 spammy backlinks you still tanked.

    I will definitely be adding internally linking info posts to that site to see how it will fare.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It may have just been a fresh site bonus and it will come back. A month or even 2 or 3 really is nothing to worry about, it could be a year!

    What I haven’t actually said at all here on this site yet is to try setting up sites that have aff links but never in the content. Only hand coded in to the theme. Try it and see 😉

    I have seen a few like this and have implemented it with some good (and bad) results.

    Vote -1 Vote +1mkt Reply:


    Thanks mate!

    Thats a different approach…

    I will do that 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sometimes you just get unlucky. I think I have mentioned in the past that I had a site disappear for over a year. Pure aff site, Amazonlinks on every page and all 300 words or less. Now it is back and does sales every day and I haven’t touched it.

    But new sites are always going to jump around for months and months especially when you backlink. The cautious approach is 5 or so links A WEEK, max, if you want to minimize such things.

    Even then you take your chances. Just the way it goes for new sites and they are going to be a lot harder to rank for a lot longer from now on.

    I don about you but the serps for a lot of terms I go for, or have lost out on, are now actually looking a lot better. i.e page 1 is full of real stores, not affiliate sites.

    We need to play clever like you say Blackthorne and have a lot less aff links, but time is still a major factor.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Time is only a factor if you don’t know how to buy authority.

    And since Lando is going to teach us how to do that, we’ll be speeding ourselves up soon.

    On a slightly related note: I’m going to set up my own MMO website.


    Not to showcase my earnings for an ego boost. Because my earnings suck and I threw my ego overboard a long time ago.

    I’m going to do it to put some pressure on myself. Maybe I’ll get my ass in to high gear when everybody can see how hard I suck at MMO despite owning a company that’s all about IM.

    Lando, if you’re reading this: send me a review copy of your product and it’s going to get a review on my new site.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    OK Dude, let us know when it is up and running. You are right about ego’s, there is always someone who does better and knows more. Personally I never claim to have the answers, just share what I do.

    And I like that it is now more interactive than ever, the best stuff here is definitely in the comments from you guys.

    And seriously, these aged domains absolutely rock, I can see massive potential if we get in (well, I already have) before everyone is at it as news sites get harder and harder to rank.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, How long before G sucks the juice from transferred domains?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Who knows, who knows if they will, you takes your chances Dude. Just go with what works at the moment and adapt as we all are in these perilous times. I do know that currently I am seeing good results with Lando’s insights, but in just my few years in this game it has changed so much. I used to rank number 1 for the hottest item just by sending the same article to 6 directories writing a new one every day. Over and over as I didn’t know any better. No KW variations or anything.

    Remember that $8K cheque I earned in 2009 that I got? That’s how I did it. Wouldn’t stand a chance now, I would be at the back of beyond.

    Adapt, do what works then change as you need to.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tara Reply:


    This might be slightly off topic here but I wasn’t sure where to put this….remember in January you were telling us to try Squids and/or Hubs to quickly test products, with the nice Squidutils banner and so on? Well, I did quite a few from Jan to Mar and backlinked them with about 10+ BMRs and then everything in my world went a bit pear shaped. So I stopped the BMRs and forgot about those Squids.

    They’ve been bringing in sales, a small trickle here and there, since last week.

    So I wanted to know whats the best way to backlink them now would you say? I don’t have BMR anymore. Would you do article marketing? Blog commenting? Anything else?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    That’s great Tara, I would just take it easy on them and maybe do a bit of article marketing, although it is not very effective any more, but better than nothing.

    And try to use sites that you own, send links from them, even if not in the niche, it will still help.

    And don’t forget tags etc on Squidoo itself, it really does help if you put your lenses in to the right tags etc so they show up on tag pages with PR and related lenses too.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Blackthorne, I agree that new sites are having a harder time of it just lately and that by balancing pages with aff links with pure info articles is a good way to get sites to settle down more. I’ve noticed that my big sites are weathering the storm pretty well even on high comp keywords, because they have grown slowly over time and have a lot of content that doesn’t link anywhere as well as some aff pages.

    Also, I wouldn’t get too excited about “buying” authority by buying aged domains. Sure they are great for satellite sites to pass strong links to money sites and some will naturally rank faster than newer sites, but remember you are buying a bare domain and Google knows that.

    G disregards whatever was on the site before you bought it. A big part of a site’s overall authority is its aged content pages as well as all the links pointing at it.

    A bare domain loses that aspect of its authority and unless you can put the content back by getting lucky and finding cached pages, Google will treat it as a “bare” site. All content is treated as new and it will take time to rebuild its authority for that content, although I suspect that happens faster than it would do on a new site.

    It can even have its PR devalued and this has happened to me with some aged domains I bought even when they had strong, high PR links pointing at them.

    Nothing is for certain when you buy aged domains and there are risks. Personally, I think the risks are worth taking for the ones that do keep their PR, especially when I find a treasure trove of cached pages of nice aged content too!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Terry, PS, I just bought an indexed, PR0 weight loss domain at the closeouts for $1 that I found 10 unique pages of cached content.

    Bwaaaah… Instant website for a buck hahaha!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Terry, Nothing’s ever gonna be easy is it?

    I can’t believe I have to put in this much hard work after all the crap that life has already thrown at me.

    At least I already own dozens of domains I’ve already aged myself.

    Looking forward to seeing you on my upcoming MMO blog, Ter.

  43. @Terry,

    Sounds like you picked up a bargain!

    I find it harder to quantify the effect backlinks from aged domains have. On the other hand, it is fairly straight forward to tell when a site is ranking well, either it is high up in the SERPs or it isn’t.

    I’m finding closeout domains are harder to rank. The ones I’ve purchased have been lower PR and not all that old. But they do have useful domain names, for me. Higher PR sites with decent age that I’m turning into money sites are ranking a treat. Whether the content is related or not to the previous content doesn’t seem to matter.

    If there’s a choice between outsourcing 200 articles at $1 each to backlink a brand new domain or getting my hands on an aged PR4 site with a nice link profile with a domain name I like, to turn into a money site, I’d take the second option every time.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Lando, I tend to use closeout domains for my satellites, so I don’t really care if they rank or not. As long as they stay indexed, then I can use the content I put on them to send high quality, relevant links to money sites. Each one of those links are worth more than 100s of links from non-relevant sites (like BMR etc), so even a PR0 has more value than many people realize.

    I’ve picked up plenty of PR2s and a few PR3 from closeouts that have kept their PR so its a good cheap way to boost the network. PR4s and 5s are rare as hens teeth, all the good ones are bid on so never make it to the closeouts.

    I’ve yet to figure out how you managed to snatch that PR5 away from all the trigger happy bidders on Godaddy and get it for $62… I do know of a trick that takes closeout domains off the list while I take time researching them, but that doesn’t work with live auctions. Mmmm…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    It was nothing shady, just got lucky I guess 🙂

    My PR5 site was a little bit like this domain: moiz.info

    Have a look at the PR. What do you see?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Lando, Aha… the old www non-www thingy! 😉

    I can see where a lot of people will find a domain in dropaday that says its a PR5 and when they check, the green bar says otherwise. Personally, I always check both flavours to see what I can see..

    I’ve had one or two experiences with domains that were mere PR2 in closeouts, but when I go to check through the links pointing to the domain, I find PR3/4 pages pointing at either the www or non-www version of the domain. This tells me how I should set it up once purchased.

    If I find high PR pages deep linking to a url that is not indexed or throws up a 404, I always create a page with that url. It has happened where the homepage has had a hike from 2 to 3 just because of a deep link like that.

    Its a funny old game.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    Simple, but easy to overlook. Dropday told me PR3. domain.com told me PR3. but http://www..com had the PR5 goodness. It’s actually got a couple of high PR internal pages too 🙂

    I agree, you can find the occasional gem in the Godaddy Closeouts. For me, I usually only look there for domain names that fit my niche(s). If I see one that I like, I just buy it. There have been too many times where I think a domain looks nice, went off and researched the backlinks, only to find someone else bought it in the meantime…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lando, How long does it take you to research the backlinks then?

  44. a question for Dave or anyone else that has been using BMR:

    Have you ever tried backlinking your live BMR posts? Do you think this is a good idea?

    I was thinking about that since I’m only subscribed to the 5 domains limit on BMR (and I do not want to post 10 posts for each domain per day), and I already have enough posts queued up for the next few days. So I was wondering what would be the best alternative:

    Create new content on my websites OR backlink those live posts form BMR?

    Before I would say that I would be better off by creating new content in my website, but I’ve learned here and in some other websites (James mentioned this as well) that I should take the time to rank what I’ve already created instead of just putting out more content.

    What do you guys reckon?

  45. I have been going through and backlinking my BMR’s, if nothing else I hope it keeps them indexed. I find that they sometimes say that they are indexed, and a few days later they are not. It seems silly to keep writing them if they are not around for too long.

    Now one of my lenses, that had disappeared way down the serp’s has come back and is no.2. This could be a coincidence, but a couple of weeks ago I did go through and backlinked all of its BMR’s, about 15 of them I think. As I have said, this could be a coincidence, it is hard to tell why it came back.

    I am going through and doing more, but it is quite a time consuming thing. All I am doing is bookmarking them, just giving them a small boost. It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has done the same and has seen it make a difference.

  46. Off on my hols for a week

    Won’t be approving new peeps comments or replying to comments for a week as I am taking a break. Play nice and I will see you all when I get back. Fish and Chips here I come (it’s the simple things in life!).

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    Have a good one!

    Don’t forget the Greggs. I’m heading back next month. Looking forward to a vanilla slice or two!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Bought a crispy roll then bought some 3 yr old mature cheddar and ate it on the grass as Wells cathedral.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    Cheese in the U.K. and wine in Spain…sounds alright to me!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Tis a good life Lando. Ready for the weekend? Email me Dude.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Myles Reply:


    Have a great break!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It was cool, thanks Dude.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:

    Well deserved mate …

    have a great break

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks, feeling ready to get back to the slog now.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, …getting a decent curry is about the only thing that Blighty has left to tempt me to fly back 🙂

    Enjoy your break dude!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks, it was great. Had a super pie from the Pie Minister in Bristol http://www.pieminister.co.uk/

    Amazing. Gravy, mash and minted mushy peas, don’t get that in Spain 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, hahaha I lived quite a few years in East London and “pie mash and liquor” was a staple… not to mention jellied ells, roll mops and of course, curry!

  47. Have a good holiday . Enjoy your fish and chips.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I did, yum yum.

  48. Hi dave,

    I’m back again with some updates, my other site just wasn’t working out, I realised I had to many things going on and I couldn’t stay focused on what really matters which was the promotional side of it, so I took the site down and started from scratch, this time my focus is around one product and one buying keyword, here is the URL:

    DELETED (Dave)

    My plan is to rank for that keyword and then attack the additional keywords that you outlined in your other post, I really think this is the best strategy for me since I tend to stop working when I see a big battle ahead of me, I think in order to make this work I’m going to have to see a sale which will encourage me that my stuff does actually work.

    I just wanted to ask you to take a quick look over it and see if you have any feedback on what I could improve, I have just started it so It wont be ranking yet.

    Thanks dave,

    I WILL get a sale and figure this stuff out if its the last thing I do on this earth.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I deleted the link, although it may be a little late now 😉

    Um, bugger, I forgot to check it before I deleted it. Sorry Dude, you can email me if you want.

  49. Ooops, guess I am now in a trusted spot that the comment didnt need modifying, oh well, anyone care to help me out?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    For long-term success, take a look at your site and ask yourself if you are actually providing value – as opposed to a site just designed to make you some sales. If your site is about sunglasses, a mixture of affiliate sales posts as well as some fashion posts, what brands celebrities are wearing, company profiles, etc. might work.

    You may or may not make any early sales. The promised land that Dave talks about comes from taking a leap of faith. Putting in the work comes first, the money comes later.

    Build your site and build lots of backlinks (if it’s a new domain, add them softly – softly).

    All the best.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Gilles Reply:

    Hey Lando, as you seem to be the man when it comes to buying aged domains how aggresive can one be when backlinking an aged domain. I have this PR4, 6 years old and it has quite a good link profile. Can I go all out and send 10 BMR links per day our should I be more cautious?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    In my experience, I’ve not had a problem with that level of link building. I’m actually working on a site that is pretty similar in age (and same PR) with the level of link building you’re talking about.


    Is this an aged domain you purchased or one you built up from the ground? Either way, if you can add in some high PR links (that will remain on high PR pages) then you’re going to be in good shape.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Gilles, Aged domains can take that amount of link building.

    New domains with an Amazon link on every single page can’t handle 5 BMR a day for 6 weeks.

    You’ll go down the crapper for sure.

  50. Building a shed load of satellite sites aint easy and it sure is costly. Say, if I have $200 per month to “invest” in IM, what would be your recommendation to get most things done as “hands off” as possible? And Dave, how much do you actually spend on outsourcing per month to build things up? I am little time-constrained with this dingy dangy day job…LOL!!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    We spend $440 a week on outsourcing, plus other odds and ends. We are a lot more hands off now, finally. If you had a few hundred a month then I would use Build My Rank and maybe Postrunner and use the rest to get some backlink articles written.

    But I would also use the first few months money to buy some aged domains, it is a real short cut and then I would begin backlinking the sites.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ken Reply:

    If I dont have enough money to build up “satellite sites” with aged domains for now, do you think substituting them with hubs and squidoo lenses would be a good idea?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    To be honest Ken I no longer do. I would look for other ways to build support sites. orbs.com is good, they take a while to index and rank but slowly rank well, and look for other properties where you can use the medium to get links and also put your own aff links in.

    I am not saying don’t build the odd lens etc but just don’t put too much backlinking work in to them. To be honest, long term, you would even be better buying a ton of .info domains and building them up or just buying normal cost domain names, in a year or two they are worth a fortune to you and you control them.

  51. A question for the masses:

    What kind of Adsense ads are on this page?


    The font is big and fat and the “Ads by Google” is at the top.

    I do not see this ad format on Google own’s ad format page.


    So what’s up with those encyclopedia ads?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Sue Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Google Adsense API?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Sue, Maybe.

    Didn’t even know it existed until now.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Here’s another awesome adsense layout.


    If that can be done with the Adsense API, then I need to check it out and fast!

  52. Hey Dave, so is it safe to assume that all of your strategies for building links that you’ve laid out in previous posts aren’t nearly as effective as they used to be? Are you spending the majority of your time building satellite sites? Do you do social bookmarking, rss feeds, directories?


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I don’t do bookmarkign any more, I did a lot of it in the past and I don’t think it is worth it really. Same for rss etc. The bottom line is that a few proper sticky links from trusted sites are going to be the best, mixed in with BMR etc for a quick rankings boost.

    But I am a lot more cautious with sites now, ones that earn well I do minimal linking to now as I want them to hold their places. Build a load of satellites, link them hard then tread gently with the ones that come out the other side. Plus at the very least the ones that tank for a while still provide good backlinks to your main sites.

  53. @Blackthorne,

    For a domain I end up bidding on, I can spend anywhere from 15-30 mins + on research.

    Domains that I don’t end up bidding on get struck off in much less time.

    Vote -1 Vote +1kindit77@gmail.com Reply:

    @Lando, is it easy to rank godaddy closeout domain

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    From what I’ve seen, ranking aged domains comes down to their age (older the better) and link profile (the more good quality backlinks they have, the better). Also, it depends what keywords you are targeting of course. After that, you still have to hit your new sites with backlinks. It’s just that they respond better than brand new sites.

    Buying and using aged domains still requires a ton of work. If you’ve never bought an expired domain at auction, my Automatic Authority report will help you out for sure.

  54. are godaddy closeout domains good for SEO. do they rank well or easily like other expired aged domains. please if you have any experience with them. your input is needed

  55. Anyone that will be using aged domains and using BMR need to check their TOS.

    Here is what they’ve to say about the matter

    “Dropped – Sites current content not relevant to that shown on archive.org.
    Unacceptable – As an example you buy a domain, let’s call it usagu.org, which was previously owned by a non-profit group for oil workers, and you put up a wedding cake site.

    Acceptable – If your dropped domain, let’s call it jacksoninsurance123.com, was previously owned by an insurance agency, and you are now using the site for car insurance leads.” http://www.buildmyrank.com/domain-guidelines

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    Good point Youssef. I can’t use all of the domains that I buy in BMR because of their rules. Brings up an interesting dilemma if you buy a domain that was dropped (but you didn’t know).

    There are plenty of other places to get links from though. http://backlinksforum.com/backlinks-classified-ads/2587-authority-link-network-free-high-google-page-ranking-blog-network.html is well worth checking out if you aren’t already using it.

    +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Bob Reply:

    @Youssef, You can just remove any past mentions of your domain from the Wayback Machine (Archive.org) easily:

    I guess the guys at BMR didn’t know this was possible 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:


    That’s really interesting. I’ll be looking into that for sure!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Ooh, sneaky!

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Bob, I guess the guys at BMR didn’t know this was possible

    …they do now! John often drops in and reads these comments.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando Reply:



    Vote -1 Vote +1Youssef Reply:

    @Bob, Sniff…Sniff 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Youssef, Nothing is set in concrete. I recently bought an aged domain that was originally a different niche to what I’ve built on it with several new articles. I submitted it a few days ago and just got it approved. It could be because the url has no keywords in it. Its just a 5 letter nondescript.

  56. I’m sure that you will cover the steps to check if a domain was dropped previously on your guide, Lando.

    Yes. I’ve been using ALN as part of my SEO linking campaigns. Thanks for the share 🙂

  57. I think what I learned from this post (among many other things that I will have to digest now) is that I should really stop worrying about “doing too much”. It’s time to step up the game and torture my websites/post with backlinks.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Just don’t go mental on new sites and ensure you mix up the link profiles, but yeah, don’t worry just do, at least you find things out for yourself that way.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dieter Reply:


    I know, Dave. But I think with the tools available to us (Postrunner, Linkvana, BMR, etc.) you can schedule your posts reasonable as opposed to just blasting them out and do more damage than good.

    But what I meant with my previous post was that you impressively demonstrated (again!) that volume matters. For instance, I have a product website that is almost 4 months old and I started to moderately built links to the individual product pages (60 + products). So far so good. But I think I should also start trying to promote the main-term corresponding with my product category (e. g. “widget review”). After reading your post, I checked and I realized I am already ranking for that term with my domain, because all my posts have “….widget review” in the title. Trying to go after “widget” might be a little bit too ambitious, but I can clearly see me ranking for “Widget reviews” in the long term.

  58. Dave.. I’m loving the blog. I don’t remember how I stumbled on it, but I have been taking it in over the past week. I think I found it when looking for some ideas on how to build Amazon sites now that I think about it.. Anyway to my question..

    How do you possibly keep up with everything? I know you are a big fan of product sites and like to use socks as examples so here is what I mean.

    You obviously want to rank for “socks”.. So you build links on that to the home page, inner pages, etc.. That’s easy. But, then you want to rank on “blue socks”, “white socks”, “pink socks”, so I assume you build category pages for those and build links to them as well. I’m still following, but keeping track of my different pages, keywords, etc is starting to get a little more unorganized. Now, we throw in the products themselves “Dave’s Awesome Blue Socks”, “Dave’s Awesome Pink Socks”, “Dave’s Awesome Blue Socks”.. So I build pages on those, build links and try to get them ranked.. Multiply that by the many different products in each category and it becomes a bad dream to manage it all.. Now lets throw in your buying keyphrases “Buy Dave’s Awesome Blue Socks Cheap”… Now it becomes a nightmare; for me anyway.

    So, now that the illustration is out of the way I ask again how do you keep up with it all, and since you don’t do much keyword research how do you know what to attack first? I guess one school of thought is to go after the low-hanging fruit and the other side says attack the big money. But, if you don’t have much faith in keyword tools, and I understand why, then how do you decide what to do first.

    Yes, a long comment, but really only one question :).. And, I just know that one of other readers is wondering the same thing so they will benefit too… You are welcome 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Just backlink for all the keywords 😉

    Um, sorry Dude but there ain’t much more to it than that. Write content with the main terms you want to go for in the post title and then others in h2’s in the content.

    Plus add in lots of longtails in the copy and backlink for them all. Over time a site will then simply rank for anything and everything to do with the products and all the terms for them. You don’t need to write a post for every buying term or keyword, authority sites pick them up without even trying.

    But you are looking at a year or two of hard work to get to that position, with many bumps and disappointments along the way.

    Keeping up is not really an issue. You just work hard every day and do work on different posts or sites and you simply carry on. There is no end to it, it is a daily thing that you simply do.

    Sorry if there is no real technique involved, I kind of just do it. And I always aim for the main terms (the hard ones) while at the same time going for a ton of longtails, it mixes up your link profile and gives some real surprises along the way.

  59. FYI if anyone is interested in seeing how Panda hit Hubpages vs Squidoo this should shed some light on things: http://www.squidoo.com/how-googles-panda-update-impacted-squidoo-and-hubpages-traffic

    Looks like some legit info from a number of resources – outcome is pretty clear if it’s all true.

    IMO I feel Squidoo feels & looks like a whole lot less like a content farm and more of a real site than Hubpages (or most other article directories). I’m a still a total noob and I’ve only just started up on Squidoo but it took me the better half of 5 seconds to decide between Hubpages and Squidoo after visiting both their homepages. Seth Godin is a pretty well respected IM too. makes me more confident knowing someone well established is driving things.

    Then again, you never know what big G might pull out the bag next 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yeah, Squids got hit a while back but are not like Hubs now, but I still say that now is the time to really work more on your own sites, more secure long term. But Squids can still be good for extra cash and, of course, some links.

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