".......and unfortunately nearly all make money online blogs are crap, so he, Dave, decided to write his own. It's pretty spankin."
Dalai Lama
Feb 072011

My favorite animated film, EVER.

Build a passion site.

We had some affiliate payments the beginning of the month and much to my surprise when I added it all up this site made well over $1000 for January. Not bad for a site with a couple of readers, absolutely no search traffic and is written for my benefit really.

Nothing like stroking the ego by talking like you know what you are on about!

Making money on the Internet is boring, boring as hell. Once you know the basics (and that is all you need really), you quickly realize that it is monotonous, mundane, and downright superficial in the extreme. But I have a passion site, and it has taken me some time to realize that this is it. This here blog.

How To Build A Passion Site

The reality is that I began this blog because I needed an outlet. As I mentioned to my MMO hero who graced me with his presence here, I still think of myself as “noobish”, and if I am honest then I know that this is the case. But I have a passion for making money online, no doubt about it. I do it all day, I talk about it with my Wife, she does it, she likes this blog and so do I.

And that is the point, this is a site set up because of my passion. It is my outlet, my escape from the mundane daily work, and I also learn a ton of stuff in the comments.

I have to be honest and say that I would absolutely die for a blog like this in any of the niches I actually earn a lot of money in. Imagine a site with hundreds of comments on each post, talk about a captive audience.

Stuff dreams are made of, no doubt. But I make my money selling white socks and there is no way that is going to attract cool conversations, not the kind I want to get in to anyway (at least not in public).

I can write eloquently interspersing my content with a miasma of exhilarating and enthralling lines full of a plethora of magical words all done in a myriad of varied styles designed to entertain myself and to somehow still come across as both eloquent and knowledgeable (see!).

But the reality is that my daily 8 hours is made up of writing very basic words that anyone who can read can understand. There is no point trying to sound eloquent and highly literate when trying to sell socks, you may put the readers off. But this site is my escape from the boredom and my excuse to write whatever is on my mind.

And I want to be totally honest here and say that I do believe this is one of the absolute best MMO blogs I have ever read. I know that sounds weird coming from me, but it is not just that we have here a blog about making money on the Internet that can go from talking about an authority site to also having posts about leaking time. Plus comments ranging from how to make an Amazon link to the complexities of why Americans seem to love shooting each other.

It is this mix that makes this site so appealing to me. And that is the point. And as with any passion, yes there have been times when this site has frustrated me and I have almost deleted the whole thing on a number of occasions and thought it would be better to disappear back in to total obscurity where no one knows my name. But…….

A passion site is the site you would want to read if you weren’t the one writing it. It fulfills what YOU want from a site about the topic you love.

This is my blog. I can do what the hell I want. And that is why I see it as such a great site. It is personal and if I didn’t write it then it would be the kind of site that I would want to read. It is my personality in blog form. Scatterbrain, forgetful, written with a hangover quite often, interspersed with Astral projection and does making my post title clickable increase my site authority.

Nearly every other MMO blog I have ever read is written by someone out to fleece you, and yes I am too to a certain extent. I want to earn money from all I do online, (it is now totally ingrained in my nature after 2 years) but this site would be here regardless of that. Nearly ever blog in this niche is crap, totally pointless drivel. There are a few goodies but not many. Most blog owners in this niche want to come across as the ultimate authority, while I readily admit that I do not know everything and make mistakes and learn things daily.

This is as it should be. Why be a dick about it? It is who I am and I don’t claim to have the answers. Just another Dude who can string a sentence together.

And because of that we have a good time here. We chat, get some light relief and also talk aboutΒ  ranking our stuff. That is what this site is supposed to be about anyway.

And that my reader is how to build a passion site. It can’t be faked, you can’t just decide to make a passion site if you don’t have the passion. If you approach it as writing a site for yourself containing all the information you would love to read if no such site existed then you have a passion site. You can hang in forums to gain readers, you can participate in conversations with others that actually have the same interests as you, and you may even make some money.

I am amazed this site goes along so well. I don’t know where anyone came from to be honest. I don’t go out of my way to get anyone new to read it. I did try sending 5 backlinks to the site the other day as I thought maybe I should start trying to rank for things. But I did 5 and won’t do any more. Why?

Because then it would not be a passion site. It would be a chore and just work, like every other site that I own.

No, let people find us however they do, let people ask questions and praise my kind heart, and let it stay a nice group of people that help each other out, talk away about nonsense half the time and give advice to others the other half.

Part of me thinks wouldn’t it be amazing to have thousands of subscribers like other blog do. But then I would have to deal with all the crap that comes with that and it would not be like a little family anymore. No, a passion site is a site that you write because you have grown to love it. Because you interact with your readers and you actually like hearing from them.

You can’t fake it, it won’t last if you do, and I am simply happy that I have one site where I feel no pressure to rank, to impress, to fake it, to link to it until my fingers bleed, and the reality is that apart from one other blog I own, this site gets more comments on every single post than I have on my whole network of sites.

Should You Build A Hobby Site?

The style of this site is different to everything else I write. It flows and is natural. I talk about what I do and some of you even buy things through my affiliate links, and even send me donations. If you want to build a hobby site or a passion site then it may be just what you need.

A place to talk about the things you do and a place to gain trust. Heck, you can even recommend some products and earn money. Who knows? But just do it out of love if you are going to do it at all. You may be pleasantly surprised in a year or so. I think the main thing is that if you do it to try to make money then your motives may show through. Think of it as simply the site that YOU need to make as it does not already exist and is what you want to be involved in.

Now, but some shit off me, I want to make 2 grand here next month.

Who loves ya baby?

  171 Responses to “How Do You Build A Passion Site”

  1. Found this blog just yesterday. love it. At last a place to chill, not too negative and not too pretentious. Keep it that way!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Will do. Welcome to the site Ryan, whaddya mean “not too pretentious”?

    Humble amazingly gorgeous me?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ryan Reply:


    Haha, i take that back

  2. Hi Dave, I wouldn’t worry about ranking this site as I think at the least you’ll have a massive underground following (if you don’t already), and the cream always rises to the top – plus I selfishley don’t want to get lost in the crowd so to speak πŸ˜‰ I found this blog over a year ago (if im not mistaken) from Bens forum, and thank God I did! You have been inspirational to say the least and you keep it real, instead of faking it to make it like so many others. I hope to buy you a pint sometime, and maybe a pack of peanuts too depending on my earnings that day lol.

    I’m in the UK right now (I moved to Ireland nearly 2 years ago) and unable to do any work on my site due commitments, but I’m soo dying to get back to ‘work’ because I love it so much. For the first time in mylife I actually enjoy my work, and thats partly thanks to you. One big thing about this game is the freedom – I didn’t have to convince a boss to let me go, and that is a wonderful feeling…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Don’t worry, this site will always be small fry. It often just feels weird having a site about SEO and rankings and not getting any google love.

    But I think that is why I do enjoy it, no pressure.

    Peanuts from the Pub, do they still have lovely ladies hiding behind the packs? I doubt it.

    This really is the best job in the world isn’t it? It still amazes me how cool it is. I will take the repetition for the freedom it gives any day of the week. Thanks for the kind comment Deano, it is, as always, appreciated very much.

  3. Hi Dave,

    Its funny, after spending a couple of hours writing mind numbing BMR snippets I often feel I need to take a break, get up make a cuppa and come back to have a quick flick through to see who’s written something interesting. I don’t do too much of it because its a time sink, but now I found your blog, its gone on “the list” cause you’re doing something I’m not. Writing a real, worthwhile blog, that is!

    I have several MMO blogs that I started back in early 2007 but they’re all just pointless crap. I got sucked into the Yaro/Chow/Shoemoney philosophy of “re-cycle the same shit they were writing and you’ll get guzillions of readers who will all click your crapbank aff links and you’ll get rich”. Yeah, right. I even abused a few of them to make money off PayPerPost et al, which was actually a real income for the time it lasted, after which Google stomped on blogs doing that crap and it was bye bye easy money! What a racket!

    So these days, now that I know better, I just leave them to fester in their own effluent…

    But that’s getting off on a tangent (I think), as I just wanted to say that I agree with you that this is one of the few blogs that really helps people who want to help themselves.There’s none of the bullshit that inhabits 99% of the rest of the junk that clogs up the web (including my own bullshit blogs LMAO).

    I might have been around a while longer than most, but I’m still learning like we all are and your musings plus all the comments have helped me too!

    Quick tip on Squidoo – when I make a new lens targeting a product, I tend to backlink it pretty hard. But there seems to be a point where it can drop in the sandbox, albeit temporarily, especially using BMR cause its easy to get carried away. I don’t think there is a hard and fast rule and it could also be niche dependent. But I’ve found that hitting it with 10 or so straight off gets it ranked high within a day or so, then slowing down to 4-5 a day keeps it floating up just nicely all the way to the top without any trouble.

    Don’t know how everyone here does it. Maybe you hit them harder early on. Be interesting to see what results everyone gets with different linking strategies! One thing is for sure, Squidoo has come right back to ranking strongly again after a long time in G’s bad books.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks, it means a lot, and that is the truth. This is actually the only “real” blog that I now write. The rest just happen to use wordpress to sell stuff πŸ˜‰

    You are right about all those guys, I used to drop in on all the Gurus now and then and it just boggled my brain. All the poor Dudes competing to get a comment first and spending countless hours to get in the top commenters lists. The shame is they don’t ever get any real advice or help.

    All the crap about how to be a better blogger etc. It is just pointless stuff that is misleading to say the least. It is the guys here that make this site something different, actual useful comments that I learn from and I am glad you like it too Terry.

    As for Squidoo, you are finding the exact same thing as me. If I do too many too quick I get a temporary penalty, but it comes back in a few weeks stronger. But I have found that if I send say 20 or so BMR’s I get a good listing. Some then drop off but some have stayed. For a lot of them though they seem to need maintenance links and this does keep them strong.

    I am loving Squidoo, it looks better than Hubpages if you ask me and the conversions seem better too. Let’s just hope G keeps on loving them, I have some hot stuff I want some serious moolah from on there.

    What I would also love is for anyone to let me know about an alternative to Hubs and Squidoo, I would love to get in early on an up and coming platform.

    Thanks for the comment Terry, and guess what? The wind has died down and it is lovely and warm up here, sitting in my dank half underground room is getting tough with the Sun shining out there.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Dave, Ha! That’s the problem living in Spain – sitting inside looking out at a glorious sunny day (like now)! Its been lovely here the past week and yesterday we met up with some friends at a chiringuito (that’s a beach bar/restaurant for anyone who doesn’t know) for lunch and to while away a few hours, being Sunday and all.

    Its so cool to see people actually sunbathing on the sand a few feet away from where you’re having lunch and a cold beer (or several) and its only February!

    I totally love Spain!!!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Deano Reply:

    Thats it, I’m moving to Spain! After the freezing winter I had I am seriously thinking of relocating. My parents lived in Gran Canaria for a few years and it was mostly good. The Canarys get warmer while we get the chill so that’s what appeals most.

    Thanks for the info on Squidoo lenses, I’ve written a few but sent no links yet so thats what I’ll do.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    What, you want to live somewhere sunny, where there is no TV license, car tax is 40 euros, rates are low, people smile and you can buy a house in the country for the price of a pint?


    But I miss the UK and am going to buy back home soon. I need fish and chips and the Cinema and um, grumpy pasty brits. Would never give up this place though, I want the best of both worlds.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Peewee Reply:

    “Its so cool to see people actually sunbathing on the sand a few feet away from where you’re having lunch and a cold beer (or several) and its only February! ”

    Terry, did you just write that? You seemed liked a pretty cool guy with his sh#* together until you felt compelled to write that.C’mon man that was not kind or funny.

    Damn, snow makes me cranky. (Haven’t seen terra firma since Christmas Eve…).

    Tell you what, hoist a pint for all of us and we’ll be cool. Some pics would be nice, too.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Peewee, LMAO ah but its the truth! I’ve been here 8 years and I still can’t get used to how good the weather can be in winter here. Ok, it can get cold and windy and when it rains, it seriously pours, but then the sun comes out, the mercury hits 20+ and its wonderful again!

    But don’t be fooled – I talk about the nice side of living on the coast in Andalucia, but on the other hand, bureaucracy is dead slow, jobs are scarce, the pay is dreadful and…

    …and what do I care…

    I make my living in my spare room on a laptop hahahahaha!!

    Everything that Dave said and more. Our equivalent of council tax is a couple of hundred euros a year and the bin men empty our bins EVERY NIGHT – not once a bloody fortnight like in Blighty. The beer is cold and strong, the food is wonderful, the people really do smile a lot and strangers will always say buenos dias to you when you pass them walking along the street.

    I spent 10 days in Liverpool over Christmas and can’t ever remember feeling so cold, damp and miserable! And the traffic… jeez I don’t remember there being so much traffic – its endless. What a place!

    And I was never a great lover of fish and chips …so I’m stayin’! πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Isobel Reply:

    @Terry, I live in Israel, in the south – almost in Eqypt – and I was on the beach yesterday as well πŸ™‚ Not as cheap here as in Spain, but we get hardly any rain at all down here, lowest night-time temps are around 11C and last summer we did hit 53C one day, although that’s unusual – mostly in summer it’s in the 40s, but dry, desert heat so it’s not so draining.

    When the snow hit the UK last November, I was on the beach – nothing beats that, for me πŸ™‚ There’s something about waking up to blue skies every day that I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of. Oh, plus there are no traffic lights in this town and taxis are as cheap as UK buses. The only thing I miss about England is my sister (sorry hon for calling you a “thing”)!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Isobel, That sounds like the kind of place I like! No traffic lights eh?

    There are still a few small inland towns like that here, but we have some here on the coast but it beats the UK hands down on just about everything.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Philip Reply:

    @Dave, have you ever looked at LogBud? It’s made by Draanor and Shawn over at TKA and it’s a revenue sharing platform like Squidoo and Hubpages. It’s a bit rough right now but Shawn just said he’s planning to do some serious work on it this year.

    Plus a lot of good URLs are still available over there – so it’s definitely a place looking for people to get in right now.

    My $0.02. Thanks for all the advice!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I will check it out, thanks Philip. Although just had a quick peek and titles like “A Few Stock Index Lingo That You Will Do Well To Be trained” are not overly inspiring.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Isobel Reply:

    @Dave, I’m hearing more and more about Quora. I like Posterous too and the other names that came up recently (haven’t used them) were Gowalla, Foursquare and Formspring.

    Vote -1 Vote +1mkt Reply:

    I have a quick question, why do people continue to promote Squidoo Lens or Hubpages? Why don’t you promote your own properties and earn 100% of the income? Use Squidoo and Hubpages to promote your sites for sure? Or am I missing something, must have missed a trick or something.

    Perhaps Squidoo and Hubpages are quick money? But I find it probably just as much effort to promote a new site, perhaps just a tiny little more like a month or two extra work but eventually they grow by x.


    +3 Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @mkt, Hi MKT, I thought I’d answer this since it’s a very common question.

    You’ll hear most ‘gurus’ go on about building up your own sites and not wasting your time sending links to other sites like Squidoo and Hubpages where you don’t have full control of them. But that’s only true in part ..

    It all comes down to return on investment (ROI).

    If you can get a Squidoo lens ranked with 20 to 30 good links (and perhaps 3 or so hours of your time for the backlinks and building the lens) and earn an average of $80-100 per month from that lens (again average – you could earn more or less) with only some minor updates, extra backlinks every month or so (perhaps an extra 15-30 mins per month?)

    Over the course of ONE year you’ve spent 5 (approx) hours on this lens all up (content and backlinks) and earned (approx) $1000.

    $1000 for 5 or so hours of work is 200:1 and a good investment in my books.

    Let’s now look at one of your owns sites. Say you’ve built up 50 original posts, backlinked all of them (which you continue to do every month) and earn approx $1-2K per month from this site.

    Again, I’m using approximates here, but lets say over the course of a year you make $15,000 from this site but you’ve spent 120 hours (30 hours for the content, 5 to set up wordpress, add widgets, change themes, and 1 hour a day for backlinking).

    $15000 for 120 hours work over a year is 125:1 – still a good investment but not as good as your return from your squidoo lens.

    Now I’m not saying that you shouldn’t have your own sites – you absolutely definately should. But the ROI on your own site is going to take much longer to build trust and authority than using a site that already has it.

    If you look at it from a business perspective (which I do with everything I do) you’ll see that it makes GOOD sense to build your squidoo lens or hubpages up if you can get them to rank well quickly.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jenny Reply:

    @Tracey, Tell me more Tracy. I’d love to hear of the successes people are having with Squidoo. Just churned out my 50th lens today but my hubs aren’t making any sales. Would love a cheering up…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jenny Reply:

    @Jenny, Ha ha! Quit your moping and get back to work. The voice mail you sent me sounded pretty said. Lets grab a cuppa today and work over your numbers.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Um, you feeling alright there Jenny. You know that talking to yourself is the first sign of madness don’t you?

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yeah, I heard that too Dave.

    Vote -1 Vote +1mkt Reply:

    I understand where you coming from, that is an interesting take on things.

    However from my experience once your sites become an authority, ROI will increase and you have opportunities to increase revenue, private advertising, list building etc. However I guess not every niche is possible but then again why not ;).

    I guess I really need to spend time on squidoo and hubpages and see its potential, and see how I can leverage off it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Great reply. I see it as a quick way to test a niche too. You can put up a quick lens and really see how it converts.

    Plus with them and Hubs you uncover a lot of longtails that you would have to have an uber authority site to uncover. And if the niche is good then eventually you have an extra page ranking.

    Works the other way too, you get another property online for keywords you know convert.

    Vote -1 Vote +1SueC Reply:


    What if you’re getting some traffic from a hub but it doesn’t convert? Clicks to Amazon but not buying? Is it keywords that is the problem, not enuf buying keywords?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Could be they are not buying keywords, could be that the niche simply does not convert. All part of the game. I have a Hub that annoys the hell out of me. Gets 1000 people some days and people simply do not buy that often. It adds up over time but not in the way I would like.

    Now I just threaten the visitors with a stick, they still don’t buy but I feel better πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1mkt Reply:

    I know what you mean!! I have a website that gets 1000s a visitor a month and makes me $5.

    Some sites just DO not convert!

    Anyway it doesnt really matter, it pays for its hosting, domain cost and +some more lose change to buy more hosting and domains.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lynn Reply:

    @mkt, Same here. I have a site that gets over 120,000 page views a month but it makes me about $150 – $200 when I’m lucky. It sucks. There’s not a lot of opportunity for growth that I can tell as I’m the #1/#2 site for the main 2 word keyphrase and lots of longtails. The market just sucks. Oh, and the site is NOT contextual ad friendly. Too many stop words even though every single product on it is from Amazon. So, I am looking for other opportunities and practicing what Dave is preaching the best I can.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You could always just try optimizing it for adsense instead. It may do better if the visitors like clicking.

    +3 Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @mkt, Yep, Tracey said it pretty well. I’m guessing that f you had to ask me that question, you probably don’t know me very well.

    I’ve always promoted the building and more building of self hosted sites. I have well over 100 on my own domains from which I earn a full time income… and have done for quite some time. But those sites took years to develop and get into a place where they were earning good coin. Some do better than others and they’re in different niches.

    I started like most people wasting a lot of time and effort trying to break into the MMO niche before I wised up. All that effort ploughed into an easier niche returns much better ROI.

    Now, back to hub pages/squidoo.

    These are properties that are easy to set up, fast and easy to rank and make money in pretty short time. But here’s the thing. Each one of these properties ranks well and has built-in authority and I use that authority to pass on to my self hosted domains in the form of a link in each hub/lens (or in a triplet – I’ll explain that later if you want me to). So they have a double function – make money fast plus send an authority link to the self hosted site that I intend to eventually take control of the niche.

    Hope that helps.

    Vote -1 Vote +1jason Reply:

    @Terry, Another point to consider with self hosted domains is this…

    When you are building a medium / large authority site within a niche you can also purchase a few longer tail exact match domains to support it….You’ll be surprised how quickly you can rank the exact match domains with a bit content and linking.

    The beauty of this is that you can ‘earn’ from the smaller sites and pass link love to the larger site whilst it’s gaining authority / SE positioning.

    By incorporating this you can have your own sites, squids, hubs, articles for multiple KWs ranking, earning and passing link juju to your main site.



    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @jason, πŸ˜‰ is exactly what I do! πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1mkt Reply:

    Excellent! It confirms my suspicion ;). Totally makes sense and I can see where the power leads to. Now second question…do everyone have multiple squid and hub accounts. Is it worth it?

    Ok I gonna put it out here πŸ˜‰ How to control a niche, anyone done it yet?

    Get all 10 spots on Google πŸ˜‰
    1. Self Hosted Site
    2. Self Hosted Sub Site
    3. Your Hubpage
    4. Your Squidoo Lens

    Ok just to put it out there as well. Once you have authority … you rank without links! New articles just rank and life is sweet!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Never got all ten but we have I think 5 spots for some terms and plenty that have 3 or 4.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Bruno Reply:


    could you further explain triplets?


    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    1. Squiddo
    2. HubPages
    3. Site NΒΊ1
    4. EMD with landing page and 20 articles in the back to add a little meat.
    5. ???

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Bruno, Here’s an example. Build three hub pages all on the same subject but targeting slightly different keywords. Link hub1 to hub2, link hub2 to hub3, link hub3 to hub1. Hub1 links out to your money site/page that you want to rank for.

    This is just a way of boosting the authority of the three hub pages by each getting a one-way in-link and then all three conjoin to send a lot of juice out in the single link to the money site. Its a lot more work but what happens is this: Not only does your money site get a very strong link, but the three hubs stand a better chance at ranking for their respective keywords. All the more so when you send links to all three hubs (ie BMR).

    The same thing works with squidoo lenses and other web2.0 properties.

    And it also works with your own authority site(s), where you write three articles on the same subject, different KWs and link them all in a one-way linking daisy chain as you did for the hubs. This time you send one link out to another page (in the same site) that you want to rank (sending links to all the pages concerned). You will also increase the authority of the site by leaps and bounds.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    And get a double or triple listing if you are lucky too. I am finding especially with Squidoo at the moment that when I write a new Lens before I have even ranked it or backlinked it that the keywords are ranking on the Lens I linked to it from. They are def in favor at the moment.

  4. hi Dave,

    I’ve been following your blog for a while now and although I do not have not even half the experience that you and Griz have, I think I understand when you say “Making money on the Internet is boring, boring as hell. Once you know the basics (and that is all you need really),”. I`m already seeing some great results, now it more of a matter of scaling it up, continuing to write relentlessly and let it all age =)

    What I`ve found that is actually quite fun is to help friends to build THEIR passion blogs/websites. Then I can dedicate myself to the SEO aspect of it with some other makerting techniques where they produce all the great content since it is their passion niche (ranging from Parties, Weddings, Office furniture, Psychology, etc.). We do split its revenues and is good to have someone to write all the great content and enabling you to try different makerting technices (not so much as “Which backlink software?” but thinking more of real marketing strategies allied with some good SEO/IM techniques).

    see ya =)
    thanks for the post

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You are right, it really is a matter of scale. Not always just scale of content, but ranking for a ton of terms for each piece of content too.

    Sounds like a great plan you have in action there. Revenue share is great if you can help friends out and get them the traffic, and make some good money too.

    Tell you what, get me the traffic and I will give you a Bananana for every build my rank commission I get. How does that grab you? I am being generous here and it is a limited time offer only πŸ˜‰

    Great to see some new peeps commenting Dude, drop in any time.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wicsnex Reply:


    will do πŸ™‚

    Really?? One banana!?!? Prepare yourself for a MASSIVE surge in traffic coming your way πŸ˜‰

    Not always just scale of content, but ranking for a ton of terms for each piece of content too.

    This one above nicely complements the one below from last post. I’ve wrote both down in my so-called “Business Plan”. The one below was definitely a good remainder: I’ve read about that idea of getting more than one spot in Google but i had completely forgotten. This time I’ve wrote it down to ensure that I will not forget πŸ˜‰

    Doubling up on profitable niches (at least). There are ten listings for grabs on page 1, get as many as you can.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Damn, should have made it half a Banana.

    Wow, you have been taking notes! I can tell you for sure that getting a good load of front page spots is definitely the way to go. You will also find that putting content for the same terms up on different platforms will give you some very interesting results indeed.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wicsnex Reply:


    yep πŸ˜‰

    about different platforms, which are the ones you would recommend looking? hub pages? squidoo? infobarrels?

    and do you link them to your money site as a 2nd tier or something like a traffic tunnel?

    I’m not really sure if I should create and point links from them to my main site or just leave them as sole “operators” since I work mainly with Adsense and could just profit directly from hubpages/Squidoo

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I am preferring Squidoo for Amazon but they are not so great for adsense earning. Hubs seem better for that. I link them to the main sites which also gets you a surprising amount of traffic at times too. If you backlink them up then you have a strong link to your site, all helps.

  5. “one of the absolute best MMO blogs I have ever read”

    You’re far too modest. It’s the best and I look forward to reading every post.

    Last night, as my wife settled down to watch Britain’s Strictly Got Celebrities Dancing With The Ice Factor (bet you miss all that good stuff in Spain), I settled down with a malt and the laptop to read your latest – which I had convinced myself would appear on Sunday night. I was somewhat disappointed – but the malt meant I was not entirely inconsolable. It is snowing again this morning. Must drink more whisky.

    Anyway – I just love this blog and I think I’ve learned more in the few weeks since I found it than in a number of years of the usual MMO wibble. Cheers.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    “MMO Wibble”, you still on the Whisky?

    Thanks Hamish, means a lot Dude. I didn’t want to sound arrogant in the post. And I certainly don’t want the comments to all be gushy, but it is what I mean by a passion site. A site that reflects your own thoughts about a subject written in a way that you would have loved to have read if you were not the one actually doing it.

    Oh, we have a bloody giant satellite dish so we get UK tv. Can’t watch them shows though, I begin to feel a little sickie πŸ˜‰

    I do love the show entitled “Hello, I have a giant lump on my testicle and am too shy to go to the Doctors about it. Can you do a close up with your HD camera and show it to everyone in the UK though”, sheer class.

  6. Hi Dave,

    You said… “This is my blog. I can do what the hell I want”… Well you can’t!, haven’t you read the Google Webmaster Guidelines yet πŸ˜‰

    I’m just kidding… love this site… LOL.


    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Sameera Gayan,

    Wow, lot’s of new Dudes coming out of the woodwork. Hey Sameera, I didn’t know they had any guidelines πŸ˜‰ Is there anything that I should be doing (he asks innocently)?

    Just kidding G, I love you really.

  7. Ranking for any of the “make money” keywords takes a long time and a lot of steady links. So if you aren’t linking this blog like you do the others you might not be successful.

    If you did get search traffic, this blog is NOT what they are looking for. They are looking for the quick money making fix. They don’t want to work like you do, they just want fast money. That means you would have to find a way to peddle some crap to them like surveys or something else rather than the things like BMR and other linking services.

    It would be a challenge for you to convert search traffic and at the same time cater to your loyal readers that you have now.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    My thoughts exactly Seth. Although I would have said it in a less grumpy way πŸ˜‰ Sorry, I just picture you shaking your head at the futility of it all, especially when I see you telling Splork off yet again for talking about the sewers. Who by the way has never approved a single comment I have ever left on his blog! Urgle.

    This site makes a bit of money because of the fact that people actually read the content and know I am not a big fat fibber. I guess it is why I see that Griz always returns to adsense on his MMO blogs.

    Peeps want the quick fix, not to be told that they actually have to bust a gut even with the best tools money can buy to help them along the way.

    I won’t be linking this site. Those few I did just seemed wrong, it would make the site a chore and I don’t want that, I want the pleasure of your company and to make sarky comments now and then.

    Loves ya Seth.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @Dave, Yea, I kind of get tired of hearing Splork talk negatively about what I spend 90% of my time doing: building content for the sewers for links.

    I just tolerate it, as you probably do, and I would rather build links than go to my old real job that pays less than I can make in the sewers. You probably feel the same way.

    Lots of my stuff seems to have lost some rankings last night. That means I have to do more BMR today Ugh.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Man there is no comparison. Work from home when you want or answer to some Muppet who thinks he is better than you because he earns a few pennies more.

    This life absolutely rocks and we are a very privileged few indeed Seth. Even if it does involve writing about white socks for the 2 millionth time.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Dave, Splork’s never approved any of your comments? What are you writing, an endless stream of “Just thought I’d let you know that this page doesn’t display properly in Opera” with a name of “Making Money On The Internet” ? πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Nope. You know, my usual high class wit and insightful analysis of the Interwebs!

    Vote -1 Vote +1lissie@Online Income Reply:

    @Seth, Actually I get a about 50% of my visitors on MMO blog from search traffic – and quite a number of them seem to stick around and convert – but I think its in that order – they are instant converts! My issue now is that I have both beginners and advanced people reading and I am not sure how to handle that – thinking about setting up an autoresponder series for beginners – but that’s so Problogger LOL

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @lissie@Online Income,

    I get about 2 searches a day and they all contain the terms “Dave” and “making money on the internet free”!!!

    Ah, the fame πŸ˜‰

    Lissie, a REAL beginners series would be great, one that actually tells the truth about how this game works. i.e A Ton of work and months of earning no money. But do peeps really want to know the truth?

  8. Dave – would you please join FB so we can chat privately. Also have something you might find interesting and helpful on there. πŸ˜‰

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Aw Griz, c’mon Man. Do I have to? I don’t even know how to do it. There are walls and stuff so I am told. And people keep trying to get you to play games and stuff. And apparently the CIA and the British Intelligence are tracking everything on there and know when you are away from your laptop so they can look at your secret pictures of……..

    Um, you know, ranking history and other technical stuff πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Dave, Lol… take the plunge – keep things private and come join our little group. We find it safer sharing stuff there than blog posts. We don’t post cat photos! Your choice of course and I won’t pressure you further – just thought you would fit in well and would want to know what we say behind your back… πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    OK, I will sign up later to check it out. But only so I know what you are saying about me πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It’s done. Urgle. Sent you a friend request thingy. I have a bad feeling about this…….. πŸ˜‰


    If anyone starts talking about farms I shall shoot you all.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:


    eww, you’ve gone over the the dark side now Dave (I mean FB, not Griz’s group. Although the group can’t be that great if it doesn’t have cat photos πŸ˜‰ )

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You would not believe what I have been doing today. That man has a lot to answer for. He has been sending me pictures of his Ponies all day (very cute).

    I need Vino, my head is about as confused as a Mongolian at a Jewish circumcision party. Um……see what he did to me, uh.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Cat, Lol – I was wrong Cat – one of the group does have a cat photo for her avatar… πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wifey Reply:

    @Griz, don’t make him do the dreaded FB – his brain will melt for sure!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Wifey, He’s an IMer… his brain has already melted! πŸ™‚ You are invited too…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Griz, Damn! I need to get myself one of them new-fangled passion blog thingys so I can be in the cool kids club on FB as well. So how do you get PressWord to like, press words out?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Wishal, Grow a mustache then they’ll think you’re Splork and let you be part of the gang…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Wishal, …oh and twiddle the mustache a few times πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Terry, Hey Terry – been waiting for you to join us too. πŸ™‚

    Hope all is well – a shame about your weather…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Griz, Yeah it really sucks having to eat lunch and drink beer by the beach and not huddled around a nice cozy fire… πŸ˜‰

    Hey Griz, I haven’t joined in the party yet cause I’m a party pooper who cashed in his FB account several months ago. I always saw it as a needless time sink where other people who had nothing better to do could keep interrupting me with irreverent graffiti on my wall…

    …and now everyone’s sneaked on there and are using it for trading secret MMO information! Gasp shock horror! The depths some people will sink to πŸ˜‰

    How embarrassing to have to go back to FB, cap in hand, and beg for my old account back! Mmmm… I’ll shoot you an email for now…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Terry, Just found your email buried about 250 down the list Terry. Sorry for the delay – will get back to you in a Jiff!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Griz, πŸ™‚ I’m so glad I don’t have your overworked inbox LOL!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yeah, in your face. I am down with the cool kids on the block sucker.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wifey Reply:

    @Griz, If only I had wisdom to impart but my IM game is “do what Dave says is good to do – but a bit less since I can kill time being the local expert with the washing machine – and then beat him at his own game”

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    And beat me you do, my Dear.

    Yow, put the stick down!

  9. Oh boy, what a real treat,

    Dave + Griz and references to my sweetheart Splork in the same post.

    This is just to much for a girl to handle on a Monday morning:)

    Next to Griz and Splork, you’re only one of a few people that made me want to whip out my paypal for donations after reading only a few of your blog posts (neither of them had a paypal button on their blogs). Hopefully, they’ll put one up soon too. Anyone reading any of you guys blogs know good genuine conversation when they see it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Praise indeed, thanks sunshine. You may, if you wish, send a paypal donation every time you read this blog πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Griz Reply:

    @Sunshine, A paypal button? Damn I wish I had thought of that years ago… Of course I would then feel obligated to post something useful. I prefer bullshitery though and let folks make of it what they want. Thanks for the praise though – pay Dave for me. πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I have actually had quite a few donations, not enough to retire on but it is a feeling like no other when someone sends you twenty bucks for reading your site. Means a lot more than making a sale.

  10. How long can it take for a Squid to appear in the top 100 after it’s been indexed?

    I’ve sent 10 BMRs to a lens that I think has extremely high potential (high volume, low competition, big price). Because of this, I’m watching the thing like a hawk (and the whole process seems to take an eternity as a result).

    More than one day after being indexed, it’s not even in the top 100 yet.

    I can’t wait for this one to rank!!!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Talk about impatient. 1 day? Squids can be slow to get going, have patience and it will come Dude.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I ain’t got time to watch Squids slowly climb the ladder, man!!

    Get the top already, I got a party to get to!!!!!

  11. Dave, I read this post on my commute in to work this morning and I must say this post is by far my favorite out of all the posts you have written on this site. The amazon is a close 2nd.

    The reason is, you have confirmed my believe that if you pursue your passion and share about it WITH passion then the money will always follow and you dont have to pursue money but your PASSION…

    This post really enouraged me to start really focusing on my passion sites. I have two of them. One is my prayer shawl ministry site that has started getting 100 visits per day. The majority of my work for this site is offline…. I crochet prayer shawls for hurting women and I post picture of them on the website and also post encouraging scriptures from the bible and even share about the patterns I use. I also have a donate button and people actually donate to me from time to time. this site allows me to pay for my crochet materials because I do not charge for them.. It is done out of my love to help hurting women.

    YOu have actually given me an idea that I will now add a page for crocheting supplies to monetize it a little more because I often get lots of searches for crochet patterns and people have actually purchased crochet patterns from amazon through my site. I realize now that if I put more work into it This really could produce a great second income and not just pay for crochet supplies.

    I am also passionate about share career and business tips being in the HR and employee development line of work. I recently started a site called the foster report and I have only had the site up for about aweek. Someone has already inquired about the home based business I am affiliated with and well as I have received some adsense.

    Both of these site I am writing from the heart and sharing my passion and experiences. My goal more so than the income I can generate from these sites is to establish community just as you have done here.

    Dave, my hat is off to you and your lovely wife (Hello Wife! if you read this). YOu have helped me beyond measure.

    I got burned out a little with my amazon sites though I continue to build them up from time to time. all i really need is to work on backlinks…. But my two passion sites, I believe if I put more into them, because I don’t burn out with them, they can do just a well as my amazon sites and more.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Great to hear from you, seems like it has been a while. I think that you have a great idea. There is nothing wrong with integrating content to show the favorite patterns you use and the materials you recommend.

    Just don’t be too subtle. A lot of people think that they need to hide their money making content. Have something big and bold that people see near the top of the site. You could do a whole series of posts about patterns and materials and then do a single link resource post that points to all of your posts about materials etc. People will click through.

    It doesn’t have to be spammy. You can write enthusiastic content and have a big general page that links to your other content. Or just tidy up the links at the bottom of your posts. Change the general Amazon links to specific products in the niche on Amazon and use some catchy keywords for the links.

    A few links at the bottom of each post with “Dee’s Special offers”, “My favorite patterns”, “Discount Crochet materials” etc, all will help. You want people going direct to the sales pages on Amazon.

    Or be totally blatant like I am here and whack a link right at the top of the site to a post full of content and links.

    Just a few ideas. Just because it is a passion site it doesn’t mean you can’t apply what you know about how to convert sales and your IM skills.

    Great to hear frjom you Dee and thanks for the kind words.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dee Reply:

    @Dave, Thanks Dave!!! I am actually creating a page called “The Crochet Supply Shop” which will be the main paged linked to pages for crochet patterns, crochet hooks, yarn, etc.
    have a list of keywords etc. plus the internal linking will really give my site a boost.

    I don’t mind being blatant at all. It’s for a great cause.
    I plan to also have a page for Recommended Christian Books for Women, Bible Reference Tools as well.

    All of this is based on the hits i get for different keywords. i use the SEO Tagging tool to create my list of keywords that people are finding me for. I love that tool. no need for me to even use google any more or any other keyword tool.

  12. Hi Dee, yes I am still here – good luck with returning to what you love writing about – it is definitely great if you can earn from things that are a pleasure to work on!

  13. Anyone else seeing a shake-up in the SERPs? Some sites of mine that had been filtered have come back. Don’t know if it’s down to something I did or if there has been an algorithm change.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @teatree, Mine are all over the place as well. Just started a couple of days ago for me.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    All seems the same to me, but nothing ever seems to happen to my sites when everyone else says there is something going on.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lando @ Docking Bay 94 Reply:


    Yup, I’m seeing sites like consumersearch.com and newegg.com coming in taking higher positions than some of my sites when I used to be on top. It is interesting to see what dropping from 1st to 2nd or 3rd spot for some decent search terms does to overall traffic figures…

    I’ve had another site (just over 1 year old) disappear completely for the keywords that I’ve recently been targeting.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Max Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, same here. My authority site has been dropping and rising 1 or 2 spots for its main term in scroogle every time I hit the search button. It won’t keep still.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Lando @ Docking Bay 94, I’ve also been overtaken by consumersearch.

    Not that I was getting any traffic for the keyword I was ranking for…

    Vote -1 Vote +1jason Reply:

    @teatree, All our sites are remining static except one product page…This is a $100 commission product and has gone from postition 1 to position 10. However, We have hit it hard with some links so I am putting this down to the usual dance.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @jason, I also want to promote products with $100 commissions.

    May I ask where you find these?

    Vote -1 Vote +1jason Reply:


    Hi Blackthorne – That’s the name one of my favourite drinks πŸ™‚

    Most of our commissions are in the $20 to $60 range with a few higher. The higher ones are mainly from small networks, not the usual large networks. I am not going to reveal this one as it will reveal the niche and probably our site.

    I will say this – once you start earning and converting for smaller networks – don’t be afraid to ask for higher commissions. We do and we tend to get it.

    Remember they can only say no, and why would they if you’re converting.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @jason, I respect your privacy, but let’s say I wanted to find a high commission thing like that… what would I be looking for?

    It’s not that CygenX stuff is it? Because that pays $100 commission as well, but those idiots can’t get their affiliate area in order so I can’t promote them.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jason Reply:


    We don’t go looking for high commission products at the start. We find niches that have products people are looking for. If they have high commissions all the better.

    We find sub niches in the following evergreen niches..

    Health & Beauty

    Haven’t heard of CygenX.

    My wife (The Boss) is about to start affiliate marketing with Amazon. My Partner and I do not actively promote Amazon, but I will be helping her. It will be interesting to see how the Boss get’s on as with Amazon the Boss is looking at products first, rather than niches. A different approach. I will report how she is getting on as she progressess.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Blackthorne, There’s a few penis extenders with $150+ commissions!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Craig, I’ve seen them. But you can’t promote that crap on BMR.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Craig, Those things are in the health niche, along with plenty of other drugs and supplements and stuff.

    I don’t think any of those drugs go on BMR.

    It would be hard to promote for me.

    Plus I don’t exactly need one of those gadgets myself, so I wouldn’t know what to write about’em. πŸ˜›

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Blackthorne, You can’t promote willy stretchers on BMR, it’s true. (I have a site in a similar niche which has done okay, and it’s annoying that I can’t use BMR to push it to #1)

    They don’t seem to have any problems with supplements, though. I’ve made quite a few links to those kinds of things, and made a couple of $100+ commissions.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    How many did you buy?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Craig Reply:

    @Dave, None. Apparently 12″ is just too big for the machines…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Blackthorne, try this search string. It’s not perfect (often brings up results that have the money listed somewhere on the page – but not necessarily the actual price), but might be useful:

    keyword site:amazon.com $100..300

    Personally I find it better to go after niches with lots of demand rather than dollar amounts though. On of my best sellers was a book that sold for less than $20.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    And also look at products on Amazon where they also recommend something to go along with it, the must have addition so to speak. It is amazing how often you then get 2 sales for the price of one.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @teatree, Yeah I’ve also seen some downward movement.

    If these shape ups keep happening, then what is the point of being in the IM game anyway?

    As a matter of fact… my philly girl writes 35 articles per day and I’m still nowhere near the top for anything.

    I pay her slightly less than 50 cents per article.

    You can’t get articles cheaper than that.

    So if you can’t make anything happen in the IM with articles THAT CHEAP, then how the hell are you ever supposed to get a return on investment in MMO?

    The math doesn’t work out for me. Yet I press on.

    Vote -1 Vote +1jason Reply:


    We pay a lot more than 50c for our articles. How are you using them?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @jason, They’re going straight onto BMR.

    They’re 150 worders.

    How long would it take you to get a writer like that to pay back for herself by having her work some page to the top?

    Cuz it’s taking me ages.

    I’m so pissed right now… I’m thinking on focussing on Squidoo ONLY, until I significantly raise my income.

    Vote -1 Vote +1jason Reply:


    I think our model is different than yours and it depends on the strength of the niche with regards to time…

    Small compact niches with good exact match domain takes less effort than a broader niche where competition is harder.

    Never tried BMR but I know what it is. We use a variety of sources for links:

    We submit to:

    Blogs, article directories, web 2.0 properties, other sites, press release sites, video

    We want a broad range of links from different levels of authority.


    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @jason, I have respect for people who manage to rank without a luxurious article distribution service.

    I could never do it myself.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jason Reply:


    We use tools, just haven’t tested BMR.

    Authorative links will also go along way but for us using tools is where it’s at.

    Choosing the right niches and keywords is also essential.

    +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Blackthorne, In November I wrote an article on one of my authority sites targeting a product I took off Amazon’s best sellers list just to see if I could rank it. There’s moderately high competition for this as its a hot product. I used BMR to link the page using buying KWs, but just 1-2 links per day. “Slowly, slowly catchee monkey.” The page floated to low page 1 in about 3 weeks, stayed there 2 weeks and I started getting 5-6 sales a week, then dropped off for most of January, but came back to mid page one last week and sales came back to 1-2 a day.

    2 weeks ago, while my site page was still out of the picture, I made a squidoo lens on the same product. I used squidutils to make the sales posters, put one ad above the fold and two more in the page. I hammered it with 10 BMR links straight off and in 3 days it ranked low page 1. I kept pushing 4-5 links a day at it and now it sits high page 1 (#1 for some) and outranks my authority site for about 10 or so buying KWs plus the product name. I’m pulling 4-6 sales a day from that!

    So the thing with squidoo is don’t pissball about with KW research, or waste time over stats or other details. Just grab any hot product from Amazon, build a lens around it and hit it with lots of links on all the buying KWs you can think of and it will rank. Because its a hot product, there’s a high probability that people are buying it and searching for it so it will make sales and it’ll do it bloody quick!

    Oh yeah, the lens links to my site πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    A man after my own heart. Best advice ever Terry. Keeping it as simple as possible and just going for it, Amen to that.

    With the way Squidoo is now ranking I have turned to some stuff with serious competition, I mean years old competition. It is bloody amazing what it can now rank for, stuff you would think you never had a chance at.

    Kind of feel sorry for the peeps who have been working on their sites for a couple of years……….but no that sorry πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Terry, Thanks for that Terry. I’m already halfway there. I picked some hot products without doing any KW research at all and started backlinking.

    They’re floating between 10-20 mostly. In retrospect, the KW don’t get any volume. But like you said… I’m not supposed to pissball about it.

    One squid I did for an upcoming product that you can preorder, is doing a few dozen visitors per day now. I get few click, so added a big arrow link to increase CTR.

    Haven’t seen sales from it yet.

    How many visits will it take to make just 1 lousy sale a day ???

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    If you get 100 visitors a day and 10% click a link and you get an average conversion of 5% then you sell half a one a day.

    It ain’t easy.

    -1 Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, I know!

    So for 4 sales a day you’d need 800 visitors to a squid.

    Is it possible to get 800 visitors per day for a top ranking squid?

    This would have to be a keyword that gets exactly 60.000 monthly volume.

    Because per day you get 1/30th of the volume and at the top you only get 40% of all that traffic.

    So (60.000 / 30) * 0.4 = 800 per day.

    And this would make me 4 sales per day?

    The math ain’t working out for me Dave.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Dude forget it all. Just do the work and rank then get on to the next. You think way too much about it all. It ain’t healthy.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Go to the AKT and fill out ‘jackets’ and make sure to check exact match.

    The only >60.000 volume keyword is ‘leather jackets’.

    Go to SeoSerp and check out the competition.

    The top site is http://www.wilsonsleather.com/home/index.jsp with hundreds of incoming links.

    The only interesting keyword in the AKT is undoable.

    According to my calculations, it is impossible to make money online.

    Something must be wrong with my calculations.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I get over a 1000 a day to a hub. I have had a single page get over 8000 visitors a day to one of my sites. This is small fry. Try it for something competitive, those numbers mean nothing. The big boys play with hundreds of thousands of visitors a day.

    It is all about conversions. I make more than a full time income of less than 400 visitors a day.

    Math; 400 peeps. I sale for every ten visitors. Average of $3 profit a sale equals good money.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Yeah, good conversions make life easy.

    1 Sale for every 10 visitors.

    That’s not 1 sale for every 10 CLICKERS, but VISITORS.

    So out of 10 people, 5 would have to click and 1 would have to buy.

    Or something to that effect.

    That’s gonna be hard.

    You say 8000 visitors is small fry? Then how come that kind of traffic so damn hard to come by? According to AKT there’s no keyword in the world that gets THAT many searches per month.

    You’d have to be gettin’ plenty of longtails as well.

    Fuck it, I’m just gonna keep hacking at it. Even if it makes no sense at all.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Blackthorne, Your missing one important part of the calculation – sales v clicks or sales v visitors – when you are targeting the product keyword, you will see average conversion ratios maybe 2% if your lucky.


    The trick is to target “buying” keywords.

    When someone hits your lens who just typed in something like “where can I buy (the product) for the best price?” and they click on your dinky lens, they are almost certainly going to buy from your Amazon banner when they see it staring them in the face. Why? Because you just showed them the best price (even if you can get it for a dollar cheaper someplace else, doesn’t matter).

    Conversions can be as high as 1:1 for those keywords because you are giving the visitor exactly what they asked for.

    That’s the beauty of buying keywords!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Terry, I imagine the misery of buying keywords would be that they have lower volume?

    Or is it not that hard to pick up lots of buying longtails?

    I’ve built a squid for an expensive hot product and I’m having my writer drip links to it, along with a few others squids.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jason Reply:

    @Terry, This is the approach the Boss will take with her new adventure. Long term it’s about the site but for short term gains use squids to also promote the products. My partner and I dont use BMR because we have lots of other tools but with Daves and so many others positive experiences I will get the boss to test it with her stuff.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Jason, Absolutely the right thing to do!

    I’ve turned my attention to squids big time right now because they’re ranking so well and so fast. The long term plan will always be my sites, of course, but its a case of grabbing a slice of this juicy pie while its still hot.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It would be rude not to πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jason Reply:

    @Dave, Terry , et all. It’s been good sharing what we do. I will catch up in a few weeks. Off for some winter sun :). I may even join Facebook to join the club when I return!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Hasta entonces. Don’t go near Facebook, it’s like smack for those on the straight edge.

    Vote -1 Vote +1JohnM Reply:


    When you say buying keywords, are you using a phrase like where can I buy (the product) for the best price? as your link FROM BMR?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Exactly. There is a post on here somewhere with 50 of the best ones.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Steph Reply:

    @Blackthorne, When I tried Build My Rank, it took about a month and a half for the links to take effect and move my site up. This was on a year old site with minimal backlinks built before that point. Now, that particular post gets a lot of traffic, but only makes a few sales.

    I have sites now that I started working on backlinks in November for that are steadily moving up. It seems to take a couple months for them to take effect, especially if the site is newer or just getting backlinks added.

    I’m thinking of trying out Squidoo and BMR just to see if it works faster…but that would mean taking a break from my current sites backlink portfolios. Haven’t decided what to do yet though…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    That sounds about right. But if you use BMR on a site that has had a lot of regular links, i.e your own or Squidoo, you can see upwards movement in a day or 2 usually. It is quite scary actually.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Regular links?

    Your own or squidoo?

    How are those links ‘regular’ from BMR links?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    One of your aff links on a money page. Just an example. I go for minimum of 50% clicking on my aff links. Something to strive for.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Ya lost me.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Steph Reply:

    @Dave, How many would you consider to be a lot of links?

    I think I may just try the Squidoo thing. Keep on backlinking my own sites slowly for now, and go crazy with a few lenses. Because it sure would be nice to make some more money right now!

    (instead of waiting for Google to realize how wonderful my sites are and how much they deserve to be #1 πŸ˜€ )

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I have tried a lot of different ways to rank Lenses. I have sent over 500 article directory links with little effect. I sent 120 forum profile links with Backlinks Philippines the other day and straight away the lenses ranked on page 2 from nowhere.

    Or 10 BMR a day for a couple of days and then as many top ups the following weeks as you need. Depends on the keywords but BMR or profile links from a service that puts them on high PR sites works well, more importantly damn quick.

  14. Hi Dave,

    I just wanted to add that this site is all the above but for me it is a place I can go to get a shot in the arm. I’m learning that finding the will to go on is crucial at this point for me. I am a plodder. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know from my life experience that I do have the ability to persevere and over time get a few things accomplished. Not from my superior intellect…….to be sure, just hands on the plow and believing you can do it. When I get overwhelmed with my lack of this or that I click on your tab and amazingly there it is. A new post like the one today. Thanks mate, a little passion can go a long way!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Dave D.,

    Thanks Man, glad to be of service πŸ˜‰ That’s all it is really, knowing the basics and just slogging away day after day. Then one day something magical happens and the work has all paid off and there is no looking back.

    It happens if you keep on working, no doubt.

  15. Dave

    The reason I have recommended your blog to the wife is because of everything you have mentioned above, especially your candid style and the great community you have here…

    I have been thinking about starting a blog / journal for a while to share what works for my partner and I. Like you this excites me and i love talking about it :). Your post maybe the nudge I needed…


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Why thank you kind Sir. I shall now also be touting my blog on Facebook http://networkedblogs.com/blog/making_money_on_the_internet_712470/?ahash=a1028de2ac91e6b856b4237a53bcdd71 so be sure to join me in the confusion πŸ˜‰

    I say go for it, it is a nice relief from the mundane work that we all do to make our pennies, let me know and just treat it as fun.

    Another Hubbie And Wife team, cool.

    Vote -1 Vote +1jason Reply:


    Hey Dave — Not Hubby and Wifey.

    I have a biz partner who I probably speak to as much as the wife πŸ™‚

    Wifey has seen the crazy money you can make from this and wants in πŸ™‚

    So wifey and her friend are going to set up a company and go for it. They are working on their first site now. Exciting times for them. I remember our first sites a few years ago…

    I will check out facebook


    +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Seth Reply:

    @Dave, So how much time have you wasted on Facebook? All that just because Griz told you to do it? I’m a bit disappointed in you.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I have wasted loads of time. Hey Man, I look up to Griz and want to see what is going on. I admit that freely. If I learn new things then I think it was a good move.

  16. Argh… I just friggin’ remembered. You gotta set the keyword tool to ‘exact’.

    All the keywords I thought had volume, turn out to have hardly any volume at all.

    I’m chasing an illusion, it seems.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Blackthorne, And I thought I was having a bad day. You could change the titles for the hubs/squids that you’ve got ranking to newer ones if they’re in the same ballpark and then add content to the hub/squid so that all of that effort does seem like its been a waste.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Just use Wordtracker. But have you been doing that for a year?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, No, not for a year.

    With broad search you get keywords with hundreds of thousands of searches. Once you set it to exact, you get only tens of thousands.

    I’m surprised at how little volume keywords generally have.

    I’m still getting my squids to the top because there is still some traffic to be had according to AKT. Not that I trust the AKT.

    I only have 10 squids so far so the next ones will be around ‘exact’ keywords with around 10,000 volume.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Just do as Terry says http://www.makingmoneyontheinternetfree.info/how-do-you-build-a-passion-site?cid=7642 and forget the keyword tools. Go for hot items or stuff you hear is on US TV ads, saves a lot of time.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, Alright, I will.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Dave, So it’s just guessing buying keywords then?

    This is gonna take a leap of faith.

    +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Deek Reply:


    Every post Dave makes here you are the most frequent person commenting. same thing with Ben’s forum before you found here, you know the basics, and you know what needs done. Go do it and quick analyzing everything to the smallest detail. That is your online problem my friend.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Blackthorne, yep. leap of faith.

    +3 Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    I understand where Blackthorne is coming from. He is an analytical thinker and wants to translate that into figures that he understands.

    So for someone who thinks like that they want to know a) how many searches a term gets, b) what the clickthrough rate is, c) the statistical probablility of someone buying, (d) how many backlinks to send to it, and so on.

    I don’t doubt that he probably has a few excel spreadsheets with lots of different mathmatical formulae for choosing the ‘best’ keyword combinations. Am I right?

    There is nothing wrong with this (I have quite a few excel spreadsheets myself!) however the problem lies in that most human beings are not logical beings. We (generally) don’t buy for logical reasons but rather for emotional ones.

    Someone might buy something based on a recommendation from a friend, something they saw on tv, a toy that their kid wants, something to make them thinner, smarter, richer, sexier ..

    So my advice to you Blackthorne is to not open up the GAKT (or whatever keyword tool you use) for one whole week. Instead simplify the process. Go over to Amazon and check their bestseller lists. Choose ANY 5 five products. Make them the same niche or not – it doesn’t matter. Each day for the next five days create one squidoo lens on each of the products and send them 10 or 20 BMR’s (if you have it).

    Put your call to actions at the top, and add the text below. Just write anything about the product – it doesn’t matter too much as long as it’s unique and makes sense – the text is mainly for Google anyway not the buyer.

    Should take you about 3 or so hours for each lens. 1 for the lens itself and 2 for the backlinks.

    Then wait a week or two for every thing to kick into place. (You WILL need to wait though – it doesn’t happen immediately)

    Statistically (since you love figures) this is probably what will happen:

    1 will bomb and you won’t get any visitors
    3 will be mediocre
    1 will be awesome.

    Once you find the awesome lens write a hubpage about it, and a blog, and totally own that product. And keep sending backlinks to it and your other properties of course.

    Yes it really can be that simple.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Blackthorne Reply:

    @Tracey, I’ve actually done this… select best selling products, make a lens and send backlinks.

    I got a few best selling products with dozens of links already. I got rankings alright, but no traffic or sales.

    Granted… I wasn’t focussing on buying keywords. However, one lens that I did linkbomb with buying keywords DID rise to the top for a buying keyword and now gets 30 or so unique visitors per day.

    It’s very little traffic and they don’t buy. But it’s already a step up from ranking for non buying terms and not getting traffic.

    I’ve already got a few new lenses in the works and I’m having my writer link’em up.

    Buying keywords this time.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Lynn Reply:

    Not to stick my nose into someone else’s conversation, but I felt like this post was talking directly to me. I have wasted so much time on spreadsheets it is scary when I think about it. I have folders full of them for every possible thing one could imagine.
    income projections
    keyword analysis
    content analysis
    site analysis
    conversion rates
    site details
    backlinks tracking and analysis
    time tracking
    daily trends
    content logs & site set up logs
    I finally told myself I was using this as a way to avoid the real work and narrowed myself down to 2 regular sheets (one to track TOTAL content numbers only for each site (which I get easily by adding up my posts + pages in the WP dashboard whenever I add content to a site), and one to track login info for web profiles and links so I can finally start really focusing on doing some backlinking)) and that’s it.

    No more playing with spreadsheets to avoid work and I’ve been pleased. I seem to need something to keep myself from feeling totally lost and like I’m floundering, but too many was too many. This seems to be the perfect compromise. And I’m getting more work done than ever before, so even though it’s not as much as I want to get done, it’s important that I recognize that I am improving all the time!

    When you’re someone who analyzes so much, it can be nearly impossible to break free of that.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Wow. That was some epic account keeping there Lynn. I am glad I don’t know how to use Excel πŸ˜‰

    Vote -1 Vote +1Lynn Reply:

    LOL. I do realize I have problems… I spent a lot of time working really hard to not actually work. πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Wishal Reply:

    @Tracey, Do you try to get them ranked for the buying keywords or the general product name first?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Wishal, I usually go for either the product name, or what I think people will call the product name eg. Lego Ninjago Toy, Garmin Heart Rate Monitor, The Grill That Was On Oprah, .. and so on.

    I generally try and think about what I would type in if I was looking for a particular product and go from there. Then when I see which keywords are bringing people to the site/hub/lens I’ll tweat the content and backlinks to reflect that.

    Sometimes I get traffic from people who arn’t even looking for the particular product I’ve chosen but a related one – in which case I’ll add that product to the same page as well.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @Tracey, I meant tweak the content – not tweat it .. silly typing fingers πŸ˜‰

  17. I decided to hop on the Squidoo bandwagon and actually doing a small case study on Squidoo and Hubapges. I just posted about it on my site if you want to check it out http://passiveincomegoals.com/2011/02/adding-squidoo-into-my-passive-income-streams-a-new-case-study/

    Basically I am going to pick 10 products and build 5 lenses and 5 hubs and see which ones rank faster and make me more money. It won’t be anything scientific, but I really just want to see how much money I can make with them. I was thinking about doing them on the same 5 products but I am greedy and wanted my hand in 10 products instead. Even if it only adds another $100 a month I think it is worth it. Should be interesting

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It will be great to hear the results of that. I am pretty sure that Squidoo will convert better, especially with the Squidutils posters.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Tiffany, Sounds like a good plan to me. I’ll be interested in your findings too.

    One thing I’ve noticed and that’s different products have some crazy results. Things I thought should be winners could bomb while others I though were probably a waste of time either surprised the hell out of me or they brought in sales from different products that I never targeted and that weren’t even related in any way.

    So you might build a lens on one product and a hub on another but even though they should produce about the same in sales they may rank very differently or produce weird sales. But you never know what you’e going to get until you do it! πŸ™‚

  18. You write gooder ‘n me.

    And we have something else in common – you like anime. Although Akira is thus far my favorite (actually second to the Avatar series, which places second behind Iron Giant, which is hands down the best there ever was – I haven’t seen Tortoro yet though). I hazard to guess we’re long lost twins. Alright, enough of that, I’m actually making myself sick.

    I hate to stroke a guy’s ego because I think sycophants need to be shot (I am an American), but I have to add the straight uppidness (hell yeah I just made that up) rocks, and sadly I believe every word you say.

    That’s not really good, though. It means you could sell me on darn near everything. Whatever – gaining and keeping trust in this industry is a hard-won business, but you have mine ten times over.

    You’re an incredible inspiration, Dave – keep dat up, homey.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Yeah Akira rocked. Definitely a classic. Wait until I introduce you to the secret weapon that will sky-rocket your income James. And for you it will be a very special price πŸ˜‰

  19. I have a passion site, but it doesn’t make me ANY money. (Okay, that’s a lie, it did make $2 last year–not even enough to pay the domain renewal, which of course I keep renewing every year, going on 6 years now.) Of all the sites I’ve ever built, it’s the one site that just refuses to earn. I have been building it out lately, trying to make it much more product sales oriented, and fix some issues with it, but I still haven’t seen a penny’s improvement. With less work and no backlinks, I’ve recently put up some stuff on other sites and they made sales right away. I have found that some niches just aren’t good for earning affiliate income and passion doesn’t always make a difference. But, never say never, and I figure if I never say I quit, I’ve never failed. πŸ™‚

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It can be very frustrating, I guess all we can do is test everything possible and see what works. Maybe even Infolinks and Chitika and anything else you can think of.

  20. I have often wondered about creating a passion site and never really done it because of the competition but as you say I wouldn’t really be doing it for the money.

    I love playing games on xbox, DS and occasionally the PS3 and in particular RPG style games that take all the hours. I probably shouldn’t be so into them because it has taken away hours of back linking for other sites that I am working on.

    I suppose the competition thing can’t be any worse than the MMO market (which every time I see I still think it means massive multiplayer online) and you get a flurry of visitors and a huge amount of comments.

    How did you start to get traffic? I know that, in my opinion, you write some great articles but do people just come here through word of mouth?

    I think apart from the competition I just couldn’t be bothered trying to get link juice for it and as you say it’s because its a passion and not work.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    You could definitely earn from it, even without backlinking. It is how this site works. To be honest I don’t really know where peeps come from to get here. Not search engines that is for sure πŸ˜‰

    I guess I have done the odd comment on blogs, but really only on sites and people that I admire. I used to hang out at Bens forum (see sidebar for his site) and I think that is where the traffic started from, because of a sig link.

    If you are in to RPG then you pretty much have a captive audience if you hang in forums and contribute and have a sig.

    Hey, are there blogs where you actually play RPG in the comment sections?

    Could be a winner of a site and at the same time give you somewhere to play and enjoy yourself, let off steam and sell some World Of Warcraft models or am I 20 years out of date with that one?

    But sigs on popular forums will get you noticed, then it is down to quality content. I love this site as I have a place to chat, no backlinking pressure and a nice small community that gives me a grand a month. Can’t be bad can it πŸ˜‰

    If only I had more than one site like this.

    Oh, a super big and very comprehensive post now and then gets you linked to. I get links to my Amazon post all the time from forums and blogs. And even get peeps from Steve Pavlinas forum and the Warrior Forum where I have never posted in my life.

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