".......and unfortunately nearly all make money online blogs are crap, so he, Dave, decided to write his own. It's pretty spankin."
Dalai Lama
Mar 312011

I am the first to admit it, most of my sites are nothing more than sites designed in no uncertain terms to get people to click on a product link and buy something, like NOW. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that, I provide a superior service for the affiliate companies I work for and give them many thousands of dollars extra in earnings that they would not have otherwise seen.

But it is, for the most part, excruciatingly boring.

So, today, for a change I built the beginnings of a site that can actually be helpful. Proud Back is a site you are welcome to peruse. It is a topic close to my heart as I have suffered with severe back pain issues on and off for many years and have tried a number of different things to deal with it, some very successfully, none having anything to do with Doctors.

The site was only built and written this morning but so far I am rather pleased with it. 7 pages that lead to sales pages but also offer simple yet informative information. The marketer in me could not do without at least trying to make a few dollars although whatever it does earn will be a drop in the ocean as far as total earnings are concerned.

The site is laid out on wordpress but there a few things I want you to think about when it comes to your own sites.

I wrote the 7 articles that initially populate it but then reversed the date orders so that from a step by step and archive point of view it makes more sense from a readers point of view. This is one of the drawbacks of using blogs for article courses, but as it is all I know I just worked around it. So now the posts are in the right order even though I wrote them in the order you see them, which would have been reversed if I did not change the publish dates!

As I don’t want to deal with questions on the site I modified the posts, category and home page codes to do away with both dates but also any reference to comments forms and whether or not there have been any. It is certainly worth thinking about this for many of your own sites. There is nothing worse than a big old comments box at the bottom of a site you are saying is the best thing since sliced bread and a big chunk of text next to it saying “no comments” this is crap.

Over time the site will grow, it will have  a number of helpful articles about dealing with back pain and ways to remedy it apart form getting bogged down in expensive medical treatments. After looking around the web for the terms I wrote about there are some great articles that are very in depth, but as usual a lot of the usual suspects show up that tell you nothing at all. My content is simple yet informative.

But it felt good to spend half a day writing a short series of articles that may be of help, and what I wrote was (gasp) actually true.

So What’s Next?

Now I wait. Over the last few years as I have grown in to this game somewhat, yet am still firmly in “noobish” land I have at least found out the beauty of having the luxury of allowing my sites to age. I may not actually put anything else on the site for 6 months or I may have another blast next week.

But what I won’t be doing is backlinking it at all for many months. Aged content finds its place naturally, and aged content is much easier to rank. So, in the long run I may well save myself a lot fo work by leaving it to sit for many months before I begin to backlink.

Anyway, links from you are always appreciated, I won’t turn that down 😉

And doing the old Facebook thing on the new site would be cool and appreciated, have you heard about the new Google plus one stuff that they are rolling out?

The tines they are a changing and we need to roll with it.

The Beauty Of Such Niches

If I am to run a great site about back pain problems then I basically have unlimited scope. Not only can I write informative articles without affiliate links for the layman covering topics apart from how to perform trigger point therapy but I can funnel them through a series of articles to items to buy that may be of benefit. Not to mention writing countless posts about massage tables, inversion tables, acupuncture etc. The list goes on. I get the feeling it could even make some adsense clicks, although that would be a last resort 😉

I am not saying that a straight up affiliate sales blog where every post is simply 300 words and a link to a product doesn’t work, it is how I make my living, but the times may be about to change and if you can fill out a site with articles that draw in the traffic and can be informative, get shared on Facebook and referred to naturally, then all for the good.

Most of my sites have absolutely no chance of me being able to ask for a guest post spot on other peoples sites, they are sales oriented through and through, but a site about back pain gives a lot more scope. I can approach senior citizen sites, bodybuilding sites and a plethora of other webmasters that may be very much inclined to have a post talking about improving back pain without having to resort to expensive treatments.

If nothing else it is hedging your bets for whatever the future may bring.

Don’t get me wrong, in time there will also be plenty of short 300 word sales posts for items on Amazon, you can bet on that, but building something with a wider scope and modifying wordpress themes to suit your needs and get away from the out of the box setup may be more than worth considering. Once the site has enough content then a sticky home page design will be incorporated and direct visitors to either articles or to product areas of the site, but for now lets just get the site indexed. More videos and links will go on the sidebar and it may in time even beat the competition. In fact it will, if I want it to. Don’t be afraid of a tough niche if that is what you decide on. It just takes time, trust me, I have done it already.

Laters, I am off to tackle the spackle niche.

 Posted by at 3:23 pm

  65 Responses to “Giving Something Back”

  1. wow. I just arrived at my day job, with an aching back. I could barely think. I decided to peek at Dave’s blog and saw this. Synchronicity?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Spooky, what you need is a backnobber 😉

  2. Hey, Dave, good luck with the site man! A lot of us have back challenges I guess, so we are in the target group :p

    Regarding letting the site age, I was just thinking this morning about a burning question I have….

    I have a site 4-5 months old that I start to backlink from day 1. For ca 2 months everything was fine, but then it started to dance like crazy: a week main KVs are in top 20, then 2-3 weeks in 300-500….I’m thinking to just let it sit for 6-9 months and come back to it later. Think aging it like that would help? 😮

    What I was wondering is: is it better to build some links and then let the site age? Or just let it age and come back to it in 9-12 months? – Meaning, is it still benefit in just aging (without having also aged lijnks)

    Cheers! And take care with the back – can u type while on an inversion table?! 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Jamie Sandford Reply:

    @Carlo, I’m sure Dave will give you his opinion, but as long as you’re building links at a conservative rate you should, imo, keep building them but just accept that rankings will leap about for some time to come. In fact stop checking your rankings and just build links slowly but surely.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Carlo I would personally carry on linking now as it will prob do the dance at whatever point you begin to do it. At least that has been my experience. It just takes fewer links to rank aged content, so if you are in no hurry then it would pay as far as time spent to leave it for a while. But it will still dance when you go back to it.

    I can type in the shower let alone upside down 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Shaun L Reply:

    When you start linking it in 6 months do you start with 1 / 2 links a day and build it up gradually, or do a more full on linking campaign? Got a few sites I started linking but have left for the last couple months to age, so wondering this for when I go back to linking them. Thanks for all the info. 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Shaun L,

    I start off slow with 1 or 2 a day then build up over a few months until I am full bore. Then I get sandboxed and wait a few weeks then get back to it 😉

    What I find is that if you can hold back and spread the links out over the whole site rather than to just a few posts then you are less likely to get sandboxed or dance about to much. A few links a day to different posts is the best way to go until you get some real winners which can then get more links after a month or two.

  3. Great. Reading you and Tracey Edwards’ latest, I’m feeling like a scammy pig.

    Anyhow, as usual: way to throw the curve, DAVE.


    On a serious note, though – my wife and I want to both have our own authority sites or blogs on issues that we’re passionate about, too – with the same idea. Hers on parenting, mine on having fun with your family – both on a budget and all-out good times…

    The products and sales pages / reviews will all be there, or the casual link – but I’m thinkin’ it would serve a purpose of being helpful as well as being authoritative and a profitable venture.

    Good on ya.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tracey Reply:

    @JamestheJust, LOL James, it’s an evolutionary curve. First the new IM’er starts out reading everything they can, and feeling frustrated that they can’t seem to make money – then they get it and build as many make money sites as possible – then they start giving back and actually producing good useful sites. Not sure what’s the next step on the cycle though – getting bought out by Microsoft for $1mill?


    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sounds like a great idea James, I am sure you will be very good at it. And don’t forget the coupon side of it, that is a very popular niche and will attract a lot of attention.

  4. Dave,

    Thanks for the back link. I do have trouble with back pain occasionally, but then I often lift really big people in not great circumstances or lift friendly positions. From a business standpoint, this is a great example to follow. I think as I get older, I’m becoming more of a visual learner and your site set up was very helpful.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Medic Reply:

    I just took more time to look over your site and watch the video. My stepmom has that S-curved tool and I never knew how to use it, lol. I go to a naturopath and a chiropractor, so this type of information is very interesting to me, so thanks again for the business example and the back information.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Wow, it has actually happened already, a site that is useful!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Apt name there too Dude. The backnobber really is a life saver and you will be amazed at how many trigger points you have if you actually get it or get someone to apply pressure on spots on your back.

    So what are you, Doc, Ambulance, I was going to run of a load more terms as well but they would all be from ER and I don’t know what they mean 😉

    +2 Vote -1 Vote +1Medic Reply:


    I’m a paramedic, although my writing looks like a Doc’s. I’m still waiting for them to realize that on my paycheck. I can see the ER’s usefulness. Have thought of it on occasion. There are some huge players in the arena, American Heart, etc., but as you said, you can beat the competition. I just have to convince myself. 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Mike Reply:

    @Medic, Hey Medic, don’t you find chiropractors full of BS? I’ve gone to one and it felt great while I was there, as I was going back to the car my back started hurting again. lol

    What made it not hurt is putting the lazyboy infront of the computer 🙂

  5. Hey Dave

    I have a secret….. I have always wanted to see one of your sites 🙂

    If this is typical of your sites then I am pleasantly surprised at how simple it is. I have been trying for months to make things look amazing and probably overcomplicated issues for myself.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying your site doesn’t look great because it does. It’s clear, succinct and pleasant on the eye. I don’t feel bombarded on the pages where you have products and you have a flare for making your sales pitch sound like something you have experienced.

    I realise that you may very well suffer from back problems but do you aim to have your other sales sites feel that way or are you more pushy?

    Cheers for the insight


    P.S. I am NEVER buying something called a backnobber. People will just ask questions!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sorry to disappoint but this is nothing like my sites that make money. The back one is all true and from first hand experience, I own the product and I use it whenever I have a twinge.

    Normally I am totally above the fold with an image and a few buy links and the like and 300 words or less on the product just saying what it is. Never trying to convince people with the text, just ranking for the buying terms so they are already sold.

    I have more general sites as well where I write proper stuff in a chatty way but to be honest nothing coverts like simply ranking for a buying keyword and getting peeps to click straight away.

    But the back site is an example for everyone that things can be done differently as well. Answering a series of questions, in this case quite a few, where people find there is a mini series leading up to the product solution is another way to make sales, although how it will pan it only time will tell.

    But I aim to build it out in to a large site over time, if just for a change and for some proper writing that is worth something.

    You know you want a backnobber really!

  6. Interesting to see one of your sites D, it does actually look quite helpful. I like the way you laid it out in a course type style, where would yo put any future posts though? Will they replace the post positions at the front?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Shaun L,

    Thanks Dude, future posts will replace the current positions but I will probe do a series of mini courses like the trigger point one, and each in its own category and reversing the publish dates so they make sense.

    Over time the home page will then change to just link to each series of courses with links etc also to products etc.

  7. Hi Dave –
    Great service to all the aching backs out there – BUT I personally will not use a blog that does not have a functional comment system. If I can’t react, whether for or against, I feel cheated. The readers can contribute so much to some topics that it is criminal to cut that off! – Rhys

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Rhys@Monetize Your Site,

    I hear you Rhys, I am looking at it more from the average Joe who doesn’t really do the blog thing and just wants some help. But also because I find that sales have gone way up on blogs that I have taken the comments section off if they don’t get regular comments.

  8. [putting hand up]. Yes another sore back sufferer, although mine is mainly due to carrying the kids around.

    Really good informative site too. It will be interesting to see how it ranks over the next six months. Especially when a few links come your way (soon 😉 )

    All the best with it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Thanks, it is gonna be a slow burner but hopefully over time it will do some good. No niche can’t be cracked.

    Ooh, you gonna send me some links?

  9. Thanks for the Interesting post Dave.

    Was wondering if you heard about the possible changes over at postrunner. i never watch the webinars but this one said things were about to change so it got my attention.

    Sounds like a possible game changer for a way a lot of people use the tool…but I’ll wait and see how it works out.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    There is a massive thread over there about points for articles or something but I couldn’t read it, it would take too long. I am sure Mark will still make it an easy to use system though.

  10. Hey Dave!,

    CooooooooooooL man :).

  11. Wow, goes to show what a nice link to a new site can achieve. 30 pages indexed and I am getting google image search traffic already.

    Never forget to use good keywords for your images and your alt titles, often image traffic can convert in the right niche.

    30 pages indexed in well under 20 hours is pretty good going if you ask me. This is why interlinking is so important, make the bots life as easy as you possibly can. The 7 articles are rather an extreme case but you really should link to every post on your sites from a few other posts on the site of possible.

  12. Have you tried inversion tables?


    Just throwing something into the group here. Don’t have any back problems myself.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    They are on the list of things to write about. I haven’t used one but a lot of peeps swear by them. Simple hanging from a chin-up bar can have a great positive effect too.

    You know, I think this site might actually be a winner. But I have said that before, about a thousand times probably!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:


    I’ve love to have an inversion table! I don’t have back problems, but they’re good for lots of things.

    I like the new site Dave. I always take the comments and dates off my sites too, since they’re meant to be more like static sites than blogs. I’ll buy an inversion table through your link if I ever get one (need a bigger house first! :D)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:

    Oops, that should be ‘I’d love to have…’

    I wish we could edit comments right after posting!

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Your wish is my command Cat, everyone now has 10 mins to edit their comment after they post it, you should see the edit option after you post.

    It does mean that you HAVE to buy an Inversion Table though!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Build an extension, I need them affiliate commissions!

    I am with you on the date and comments Cat, nothing worse than a year old blog post showing up in the serps with the date on it first, people like current stuff a lot of the time. Glad you like the site, I pretty much decided today that I am going to build it out in to a biggie. But a goodie too. Although I will mix in a load of product posts as part of the “Store” 8) Gotta earn the pennies. We are coming back to the UK to scout around for house buying areas soon so I hope that you lot are still in an Uber recession!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:

    @Dave, let me know if you make it down to Kent, I’ll buy you & Wifey a drink, or seven 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I like the cut of your jib young man!!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:

    @Dave, you’re more than welcome (although I think “young” is pushing it a bit, I’m also selling my house if you’re interested 😉

    On a totally unrelated subject, I clicked on a “We are hiring Autocompleters” link in the Google suggest box and it lead to this – hxxp://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/uslocations/mountain-view/autocompleter/index.html – somebody at G has a sense of humour.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    If it is in the countryside with land but good access to a fish and chips shop then you might be on!

    That link is funny, shame I can’t travel for doing auto-completes for local search, and my psychic reading abilities are nowhere near up to scratch!

    Nice find Ben, that made my day.

    Almost CAVA o’clock too, sweeet.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:

    @Dave, 2 out of 3, no land but within walking distance of one of the best pubs in Kent.

    Enjoy your Cava, another 2 1/2 hours for me until I can hit the cider 🙁 Back to trying to find a Fillipino writer.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Josh Reply:


    What kind of problems are you having?

    In the last few months I have gotten a lot of experience with hiring(and…firing) Filipinos haha

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:

    @Josh, I am using craigslist.com.ph, I have posted a vacancy and emailed suitable people who have posted their resume’s but I have had no response to the ad and no replies from the emails 🙁

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Pay for a months membership for online jobs.ph. It is how we found our 2 full time gals. We had a ton of applicants, more than worth a months fee.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Cat Reply:


    Good luck with the house hunting (and thanks for the edit option!)

    Vote -1 Vote +1Tammy Reply:


    My husband had an accident when he was a teenager where he broke his back and most of his ribs. Needless to say he suffers from major back pain. All that to say that he has an inversion table that is used constantly – his go to when he has aches. He also racks up big chiropractor bills each month 🙂

    Have you ever heard of decompression therapy? Expensive but my husband tried it and said that his back had never felt better. More article suggestions for you…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Sorry to hear about that, what a nightmare. Thanks for the ideas though Tammy, I will certainly put them in to practice. All the best for Hubby.

  13. “Backnobber” sounds vaguely dirty…..

    Useful authority sites, though….are you turning to the dark side? 🙂

    There is sick sick SICK money in the backpain market. Forget the gadgets, the big money is in the nutritional supplements that cost $3 to manufacture and sell for $30 and have to be purchased every month (can you say continuity?). Nice commissions in that stuff.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I hadn’t even thought about that, thanks Dude, watch this space, I am gonna make this a kick ass site!

  14. Here’s a little poke on Amplify for you Dave.

    See it here Banish Back Ache

    Cheers – Rhys

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Rhys@Monetize Your Site,

    Thanks, much appreciated, the more the merrier.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Terry Reply:

    @Rhys@Monetize Your Site, When I first saw that I thought it read “Spanish Back Ache” …then I spotted it hahahaha…

    I think I need to write a site on the failing eyesight of IM’ers who work too many hours… 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Mike Reply:

    @Terry, haha terry, my left eye twitches after 6+ hours.

  15. Dave, if you are interested in aged domains there is quite a good video by Terry Kyle towards the end of this sales page hxxp://backlinks-hydra.com/ (no idea what the product is like).

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    I may have seen it already but I need to actually watch it again and try to digest it this time 😉

  16. Yes indeed, a site _about_ something? Love the concept. Perhaps the web should have more of these 😉

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Dave Starr,

    It’s about time I did something different for a change Dave, I want to create something good that also makes money.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:

    @Dave, Madness!!! It’ll never cath on.

    Thanks for the tip above, heading that way now

    Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Reply:

    @Ben, cath catch

    Where’s that edit button?

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    It should be at the top of your post for 10 minutes.

  17. Hi, Dave and everyone
    I was reading your blog for a while and this is my first comment here as I decided to share with you what’s my progress since I was reading this blog. Maybe there’re others in the same boat as me

    After reading your blog, I decided to come up with my first amazon website, just like you are suggesting. Atm I have some other 6 sites that are all on adsense and that all together make me 2 euros a day and that is a shame I think, I know I can do more.

    What I did was:
    – I’ve registered with a free wordtracker account and came up with a niche
    – I’ve put up a website, and wrote 10 articles x400 words about what I want to sell
    – I’ve registered with amazon asociates and put the affiliate links into on m pages
    – I submitted 15 articles in different article directories, for backlinks
    – The site is 3 weeks old

    Now, webmasters.google says I’ve got all 11 pages indexed, yet I saw only 4 visitors coming from google so far. If I search my keywords in google, my site appears to be at the end of the list, I really don’t know what to do now. Should I write more articles, or should I create more backlinks?
    The website is about zhu zhu toys. Later I discovered that it was a wrong idea to start this website, as these toys where a big hit back in 2009 and not now, but anyway, it’s just a test site, I want to learn more with it…. The url is http://wheretobuyzhuzhu.com
    What would you, Dave and audience, do different about this website? What do you think is the problem I don’t get any traffic? is it too soon and should I concentrate more on linkbuilding? Or should I just leave it and come back in a few months and do that?
    Thank you for your time!

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:


    Getting any search traffic that quickly is good so no worries there. It takes time and often a lot of it before you see any real natural search visitors. It sounds like you are on the right track.

    Patience is hard but if you do want to make it then you need to think in terms of months and months, if not longer for sites to be a success. But I know that is tough when you are starting.

    For a close niche like that 10 articles on site may well be enough, but write how many the topic warrants, and there are quite a few for the zhu zhu’s, babies, the battle arenas etc.

    Only problem is that you have missed the boat on that niche, it was big a while ago, but you will still get earnings come the end of the year for that niche, no doubt about that, but don’t expect much until then, it is very Christmas oriented.

    As to the site, I would try using a button as well as or instead of text call to actions. Also don’t give out Amazon prices as you are breaking their terms if the price changes and you do not update your site within 24 hrs. Interlink your content so it gets crawled quicker but generally the overall appearance is good. I am not a fan of yellow highlights but it may work well, the clickbank crowd still use it to death so it may be a real winner.

    Build more sites, let them age, and backlink slowly until you begin to see results. Keep at it and once you find a real winner really try to concentrate on that one site.

    And good luck Dude, the possibilities are endless.

  18. Hi D. Was looking into the h9 reseller hosting you was talking about in your Niche Domination topic. Thought I’d ask you as they were taking a while to respond (And I’d rather honest feedback from someone that already uses it).

    1. Once you pay the $19.99 monthly fees, what other fees do you end up encountering? Separate IP addresses? New accounts?

    2. When you’re making your own sites, can you make them all from one control panel with seperate IPs or do you have to log into a new one for each site?

    3. How come you decided to get reseller hosting, was it so you have different IP addresses or so people can’t see your other sites? or other?

    Thanks for the help, looking into it but seeing if it’ll be worthwhile for me. Originally was thinking to get it as one of my sites is showing up for x rated terms in webmaster tools. Saying these terms are relevant to my site and that I have mentioned them X amount of times on certain pages. In reality I haven’t mentioned them at all :-s

    I’ve deleted the theme I had installed on it and put a new one (I’m sure all of this started when I changed my theme) but in case this doesn’t work I’m worried that any such thing would infect the rest of my network (They’re all on the same IP, not sure if that makes a dif). If you’ve any experience or knowledge with any of the issues I’ve mentioned I would love to hear your view. Thanks a lot.

    +1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Shaun L,

    For me we pay the twenty bucks and then get I think 5 or 6 ips, about that. I did it so I have a network of sites on different ips and that they are not easy to trace, i.e not all hosted together.

    I think if you want more ips you may have to pay a few dollars per ip, bit don’t quote me. You can access it all through one control panel or with different passwords for each domain if you would rather.

    I also got reseller so that I simply don’t have too many sites under one hosting account, worth it as the other day with webhostingpad we had our whole network on there down and it took hours to get back up.

    Don’t worry about the porn stuff, you could well have dodgy stuff on other peeps sites that are on the same ip as you anyway, stuff slips through I am sure.

    I have site that is showing up for links and traffic from porn forums, nothing I did and it still ranks for the terms I backlink for, it freaked me out at first but all seems good now. But if it is a real winner or may interfere with a winner then move it over to a new ip and sleep better 😉

    Hope that helps Shaun.

    Vote -1 Vote +1Shaun L Reply:

    Ok, thanks for the info. You’ll be suprised how hard it is to find that simple info online lol.

    Yer, the porn thing really freaked me out when I first saw it, have had that site up for a good while and soon as start getting traffic all this happens. I found a couple of articles that may help me find out where those things are coming from, I’m going to try them when I get home and if they work i’ll share the links / techniques on here. Thanks again for the help Uncle D 🙂

    Vote -1 Vote +1Shaun L Reply:

    Turns out the code / spam links was put in the theme I was using… That’s what happens when you get a $5 version of Genesis from Fiverr lol. I manually checked all the files and found loads of links etc in “wp-content/themes/genesis/lib/functions/deprecated_functions.php”.

    Deleted the links, but have decided to just use another theme instead now as there may be other things on there that I don’t know about that will affect my rankings. I used to design my own themes, but stopped as got a better look quicker with pre designed themes. May have to go back to that after all…

    Vote -1 Vote +1Dave Reply:

    @Shaun L,

    Wow, sneaky bugger. It prob is best to totally delete the theme then if it is corrupted like that. Gotta watch them Fiverr dudes, some are great and some are definitely promising more than they deliver.

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